Uncomplicating the Conflict: Palestine and Israel
With the conflict in Palestine and Israel at a fever pitch, emotions are running high. We challenge some of the more dangerous narratives emerging, give updates on peoples’ reactions and do our best to provide the context needed.
But unpacking the conflict between Palestine and Israel doesn't start with the devastating attack on civilians by Hamas in early October 2023. 75 year occupation, the conditions in the Gaza strip and the West Bank, and the repeated denial of non-violent avenues need to be part of the discussion.
As does the power imbalance that exists. There is no ending violence without understanding where it came from.
Solidarity with the people most impacted by this. Free Palestine.
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Transcript
There is so much out there to get mad about. Social injustices, class warfare, continued
Speaker:colonization, the act of destruction of our planet by those focused on prophets and not
Speaker:people. We can find it overwhelming at times. The good news is there are equally as many,
Speaker:if not more, stories of people coming together and rising up against the forces at play. So
Speaker:the creators of Blueprints of Disruption have added a new weekly segment, Ravel Rants, where
Speaker:we will unpack the stories that have us most riled up, share calls to action, and most importantly,
Speaker:celebrate resistance. Not a complex issue. That's the big thing. It's super simple. There's one
Speaker:group that has... enormous power, it's the most powerful country in the Middle East, it's backed
Speaker:by the United States, it acts on another population of people with total impunity and is never
Speaker:held accountable for anything. So there's no symmetry in the relationship, period. And just
Speaker:as like a thought experiment, IDW people. If we know that if somehow a population of Jewish
Speaker:refugees ended up in West Bank in Gaza, and an Arabic government in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
Speaker:had an open air prison in what, you know, Jewish Gaza, which they bombed with white phosphorus,
Speaker:they killed civilians indiscriminately and they had no provisions for medicine, they had an
Speaker:embargo that blocked food, that the electricity wasn't running, that there was an over 48%
Speaker:unemployment rate, life expectancy and malnutrition, One of the major policymakers in this hypothetical
Speaker:Arabic Palestinian state said, we need to put those Jews on a diet. In the West Bank, there
Speaker:was another Jewish area where there was a little bit more autonomy, but there was regular Arabic
Speaker:settlements where they pulled up the Jewish farmers' foods. They terrorized them with rocks.
Speaker:The security forces broke children's bones, and they couldn't drive their own roads. We'd
Speaker:all have no problem understanding what that was. So there's nothing complex about it. It's
Speaker:a pure asymmetry relationship. And the question is rights or not. So that's it. It's not complicated.
Speaker:That clip that we just listened to is from the late Michael Brooks, where he is describing
Speaker:the asymmetrical relationship between Israel-Palestine, specifically the continued oppression of the
Speaker:Palestinian population, the apartheid relationship. with the state of Israel. I'm sure by now everybody
Speaker:has heard at least a little bit about the events that have been unfolding in Israel-Palestine
Speaker:over the last few days. And there has been a lot of narratives to come out of that, a lot
Speaker:of narratives from those in power in Western nations. And in particular, there has been
Speaker:a repression of Palestinian voices. And the experiences of the Palestinian people as these
Speaker:events have unfolded. I think it's important to add some context around what we're going
Speaker:to talk about and the clip that just happened. In there, he mentions hypothetical leaders
Speaker:and the attitudes that they espouse. Those aren't hypothetical leaders. They're absolutely real,
Speaker:and they're openly calling for the complete destruction of Gaza. For those who don't know,
Speaker:Gaza is a densely populated area, two million people. Fifty percent of those people are children,
Speaker:and there is no real way for them to leave. There are reports on top of the bombings that
Speaker:we have all seen, there are now reports that the Israeli government is raining down white
Speaker:phosphorus on the civilians of not only Palestine but of Lebanon. That is a war crime. That is
Speaker:a restricted-use weapon. And while the Israeli government is doing this, the Canadian government
Speaker:has hoisted a giant Israeli flag atop of the peace tower in Ottawa, lit it up blue. There's
Speaker:demands to have the CN Tower go blue and the falls go blue and white in a sign of solidarity
Speaker:for the civilians murdered in Israel at the hands of Hamas. There is no suggestion of marking
Speaker:the large loss of life of Palestinians that has already happened and which is promised
Speaker:in the future. And I am absolutely blown away. Like on this show, I have vented so many times
Speaker:against leftist politicians for so many valid reasons. And still, I was shook watching the
Speaker:tweets and statements roll in from... so-called progressives. Friends, it's like a complete
Speaker:disconnect has happened. And it's been devastating. My thoughts are completely with my comrades
Speaker:most affected by this, especially my Palestinian friends. I can't imagine the weight that they're
Speaker:carrying right now, especially considering some of the narratives that are surrounding what
Speaker:has happened. The most important thing to draw out of that clip though is the power imbalance.
Speaker:Right? Like that is so important when you're talking about this both sides argument or statement
Speaker:that often comes out. We think it's absolutely atrocious when it happens in terms of like
Speaker:Neo-Nazis going against Antifa, right? Like, well, there's bad people on both sides. Like
Speaker:we completely reject that argument because of what, of the ideologies that exist underneath
Speaker:it. And the power imbalance that exists between Israel, who completely control what happens
Speaker:within Gaza and the people within Gaza itself. And it's like everyone has completely forgotten
Speaker:that. Like they have taken this act of horrible violence that happened in Israel. Like no one
Speaker:is going to deny what we are reading about is atrocious, but they're using that to completely
Speaker:erase all context of the occupation behind it. as though this was unprovoked. And I've seen
Speaker:that word used, unprovoked. As if the last 75 or so years have just not happened. As if there
Speaker:hasn't been a continued oppression of Palestinians for generations. Unprovoked, as if there haven't
Speaker:been numerous attempts in recent history at... protesting the conditions peacefully that have
Speaker:been met with absolute oppression. As if the daily reality, as if the IDF themselves, as
Speaker:if members of the IDF themselves have not gone on record numerous times about their instructions
Speaker:being to break the population of Gaza. to psychologically break them, to control every single aspect
Speaker:of their life. Because that is the condition that Gaza is living under. Let's talk about
Speaker:that for a second. Israel controls every single thing that goes in and out. They control whether
Speaker:or not food goes in. They control water, of which there is none, where 95% of the water
Speaker:in Gaza is not drinkable. They control all of the markets. They control everything. It's
Speaker:an absolute oppression. Nothing goes in and out. But it's unprovoked. Gaza, as Jessa mentioned
Speaker:earlier, is over 50% children. Why do we think that is? The median age in Gaza is 18 years
Speaker:old. Why? Because the life expectancy in Gaza is so low. People are either killed or they
Speaker:starve to death. But it's unprovoked. When Gaza has been bombed on and off for decades, but
Speaker:it's unprovoked. It's a ridiculous notion. It is, and I don't want anyone to get the idea
Speaker:that this is us justifying or condoning what we've seen. Absolutely not. But we're not those
Speaker:people. We have not lived in those conditions. We do not know what we would do. Most of us
Speaker:are settlers, and this probably makes us very uncomfortable to see. violent decolonization
Speaker:happen in front of us. I wanna read a little bit from a tweet from Joy Henderson. She is
Speaker:black Lakota educator and an amazing activist. And I just think what she said helps explain.
Speaker:But after I say that, I also want to go back. This is... or for you to remind me, Santiago,
Speaker:that although you can explain what happens when you put somebody in an open air prison indefinitely,
Speaker:generationally, and tighten the grip, right? Because this is a government who has, sorry,
Speaker:this is a population who has also just elected an even more far right government, one that
Speaker:is hell bent on shrinking Gaza and destroying Palestinians. it's becoming increasingly worse.
Speaker:So we can understand how it escalates to that kind of level of violence. So Joy said, if
Speaker:me and my kids were trapped in an open air prison where food, electricity, water, freedom was
Speaker:based on the whims of a state who thought I was an animal, I'm pretty sure I'd be violent
Speaker:as hell. Most parents would. My ancestors, both Black and Indigenous, fought back against violent
Speaker:colonialism. They killed, they burned, they stole, and I don't know what else, but I absolutely
Speaker:won't condemn them. Because when you attempt to eliminate people or keep them enslaved with
Speaker:no means or hope of escape, they're not going to be nice about fighting back. My ancestors
Speaker:knew their revolts and rebellions meant torture and death, but they had nothing left to lose.
Speaker:And what I think she means, and Joy, I apologize if I'm wrong, but when you create these such
Speaker:harsh conditions, you have then let go of the reins. You cannot control what human people
Speaker:will do to survive. You can put a wall up, you can write all these rules, you can try to excuse
Speaker:it, you can try to justify it, you can try to greenwash it, but eventually... not to dehumanize
Speaker:anybody, but we all are animals in a sense, in the sense that we will react to survive,
Speaker:to protect ourselves. And it's not like this was the first thing Palestinians or Hamas have
Speaker:tried. A lot of people are talking about, you know, of course, you know, condemning the violence
Speaker:on both sides and respecting— life on both sides and all of these really obvious statements.
Speaker:and saying we should work towards peaceful solutions. As though for 75 fucking years, people haven't
Speaker:been trying to use peaceful solutions. You know, in 2008, we'll go more recent, right? Just,
Speaker:you could go back all 75 years and have multitude of examples of what happens when Palestinians
Speaker:do resist in any form. But in 2018, 2019, you had the March of Return, where hundreds of
Speaker:thousands of Palestinians marched for days and days, weeks, and they were murdered over and
Speaker:over again. Over 220 Palestinian civilians were gunned down, mostly by Israeli snipers shooting
Speaker:to kill. Over 9,000 were wounded. many journalists clearly marked were completely taken down.
Speaker:Just last year, Israel killed a Palestinian journalist and bombed intentionally—and we
Speaker:know it's intentionally because they told them it was intentional—they bombed
Speaker:Palestinian journalist and lied about it and lied about it and they were found and then
Speaker:and after they lied about it they were caught in their lives and it's not a question anymore
Speaker:we know that they murdered this journalist this has been a common action there has been no
Speaker:symmetry whatsoever if you look at and God I hate what's the Che Guevara quote you know
Speaker:the The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property
Speaker:of the richest man on earth. Absolutely. And so I don't compare things to way life because
Speaker:life cannot be measured in numbers. But it is worth pointing out the absolute unsymmetry
Speaker:in terms of Palestinians killed versus Israelis killed. Because it's not even close. It's not
Speaker:even remotely close. There has been an absolute asymmetry and the crimes against Palestinians
Speaker:have been consistent for years. And now, just now, the defense minister of Israel said, and
Speaker:I quote, I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity,
Speaker:no food, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals. Yeah, that's The huge
Speaker:step is dehumanizing a population so that the rest of the world can be okay with what you're
Speaker:about to do next. And frankly, they've done it so many times, I think the world is okay
Speaker:with the fucking bombing of Gaza. How many times have we seen those images, even though reporters
Speaker:are saying that this is the worst that they've ever seen? And it likely is, considering the
Speaker:promises that the Israeli state has given. But I want to go back a bit to— the alternatives
Speaker:that Palestinians have tried to use and which have also been demonized and thwarted. And
Speaker:it's why we get to the place that we're at. When you leave—we've talked about this many,
Speaker:many times on the show before, not in such violent context—but when you rob people of a voice
Speaker:or a method to use the mechanisms you want them to use, right? You want them to use peaceful
Speaker:means. You want them to use the UN courts, peaceful protests. They will fucking shoot you down.
Speaker:They will— put you out of that room, there's no seat at the table for Palestinians. Boycott,
Speaker:divest and sanction, the BDS movement, Justin Trudeau condemned anyone who would take part
Speaker:in a boycott of Israel. So they have purposely shut down every fucking peaceful route that
Speaker:is available to Palestinians, and then they stand back, murder them at will, and then wonder
Speaker:why they bit back. Every fucking politician out there, say for Sarah Jemma, is completely
Speaker:condemning Palestinian people. to death. You don't know. They don't know, or maybe they
Speaker:do the damage that is happening by silencing folks right now by saying that being pro-Palestine
Speaker:means being pro-Hamas, that being pro-Palestine means being for the murder and rape of civilians.
Speaker:They don't understand how dangerous that is for Palestinians to start taking away the voice
Speaker:of the diaspora while their families are being bombed. You are leaving them no room to do
Speaker:anything. And these are the conditions that created this in the first place. You know,
Speaker:Canada and the world are talking about withdrawing all aid from Palestine, which is just a giant,
Speaker:most of it, it's a giant refugee camp. It really fucking is. And 18 of the UN relief buildings
Speaker:have been destroyed by these bombings. So the conditions that we knew of, that we described,
Speaker:that power imbalance, That was even before these bombings. When we say it's an apartheid state,
Speaker:this has been confirmed by Amnesty International. This is absolute oppression. And some even
Speaker:go as far as to say that it's, I mean, to be completely honest, apartheid arguably is not
Speaker:enough. What it is a genocide. You can say that, absolutely. It is a genocide. There should
Speaker:be no hesitation there. I remember. I think it was Noam Chomsky who said that in Gaza the
Speaker:conditions are far worse than apartheid. Meanwhile, we see these narratives of condemnation of
Speaker:Hamas as if Hamas is Palestine. Hamas is not Palestine. As we mentioned, over 50% of the
Speaker:population, and I cannot emphasize this point enough. Over 50% of the open air prison that
Speaker:is Gaza is children. Something like 44% of them are 14 and under. And it's being bombed indiscriminately.
Speaker:Buildings are collapsing, apartment buildings where people live are being shown. Whole neighborhoods
Speaker:are being flattened. White phosphorus, chemical warfare. And again, it's worth mentioning,
Speaker:this collective punishment is against international law. I mean, How much of this is against international
Speaker:law? Like the apartheid system is against international law. The whole, the settler colonialism is
Speaker:against international law. The colonialism of the West Bank is against international law.
Speaker:The killings of innocent Palestinians for generations has been condemned as against international
Speaker:law. There are consistent war crimes. Killing of journalists is against international law.
Speaker:The halting aid. preventing aid from being reached, Israel just said that they would bomb these
Speaker:Egyptian trucks that are carrying aid en route to Gaza. They said they would bomb it if it
Speaker:attempts to enter Gaza. That is against international law. It's important to note that those trucks
Speaker:would be taking the same routes that they've just asked Gaza residents to use in order to
Speaker:evacuate their homes. And I want to ask people, do you think Israel will let those people return?
Speaker:Have you seen what has happened to Palestinian people that have been pushed out of their homes
Speaker:and off of their land? They don't have the right to return. And I have no reason to believe
Speaker:this particular Israeli government would let any of them return either. And you talk about
Speaker:genocide, you got Nikki Haley, former US UN ambassador, and she gets on Twitter and her
Speaker:quote is, finish them Netanyahu. Now people want to tell me that she's talking about Hamas.
Speaker:OK, you don't think she's talking about all people, all Palestinian people, all people
Speaker:of Gaza? Fine. You think it's OK to just kill everyone that Israel has on their list of who
Speaker:is Hamas? The same IDF who lie consistently about what we can see to be true on video,
Speaker:what we can see to be true coming from the UN and all the observers that have fucking been
Speaker:in there, and from people's lived experience. The same fucking IDF that the BBC is quoting
Speaker:without verifying anything. This is open calls for genocide or, at the very least, massive
Speaker:extraditional killings. And we shouldn't be surprised because the US does this all the
Speaker:time. What makes this most disgusting though, Santiago, is in the face of this, in the face
Speaker:of this brutal collective retribution. Like this. fuck you, we're going to kill you because
Speaker:people operate within your realm that have done some bad things. And at that same time, you're
Speaker:looking at those victims now and demanding that they condone Hamas while not saying a thing
Speaker:about how many Palestinian civilians are being killed. And that is the biggest part for me.
Speaker:It's not justifying the violence. It's not definitely not cheering on. It's challenging the imbalance
Speaker:that exists here too, when you're trying to talk about these issues. And the same fucking
Speaker:thing happens with Ukraine. Ukraine is experiencing an illegal occupation. And so, by international
Speaker:law, they are allowed to resist with weapons, with arms. We know this to be true because
Speaker:we are arming them and we are putting their flags in our bio. We are cheering them on.
Speaker:We are not allowed to question their death squads. We are not allowed to question the fact that
Speaker:they have Nazis in their rank. We are not allowed to question anything Zelensky has done in the
Speaker:past or any way how the Ukrainian government has treated the people in the places that Russia
Speaker:is now occupying. We're not allowed to suggest a peace accord, right? That would have you
Speaker:ridiculed and labeled a Putin stan, right? The fact that Ukraine would have to cede land is
Speaker:just... abhorrent to suggest, but at the same time, you have no recourse for Palestinian
Speaker:people that you know have not just had their land stolen during the Nakba, but it has shrank
Speaker:over time and has been clawed back from them over the 75 years to the point where it's like
Speaker:this open-air prison that we describe. And still you don't think that they have the right to
Speaker:respond violently? Still, even though— You celebrate the French resistance in World War II that
Speaker:killed Nazis underground that utilized guerrilla tactics and those leftists out there that celebrate
Speaker:Che Guevara. I know you read the quote about one value of human life, but when you put people
Speaker:in a position where they don't have sophisticated arms. They don't have the ability to engage
Speaker:military targets as easily as the U.S. does, and they don't even limit it to military targets,
Speaker:even though they have fucking drones with accurate, laser-guided missiles. You're talking about
Speaker:people who have to make do in the conditions that we just described and still fight for
Speaker:resistance, because they have the fucking right to do that. And I'm not afraid to fucking say
Speaker:it. It's true. It's under international law. They're allowed to fight back. And as settlers,
Speaker:I don't think it's up for us to decide how they do it. And how often have we seen, you know,
Speaker:Hamas launch rockets from Gaza into Israel that don't make a dent through the Iron Dome only
Speaker:for Gaza to be bombed 10 times over in response? How many times have we seen that? Gaza doesn't
Speaker:have bunkers. Gaza doesn't have an Iron Dome. Gaza is an open air prison, and we've seen
Speaker:this over and over again. I don't have answers to give anybody because I don't, as long as
Speaker:the Western world is unilaterally supporting, arming, funding Israel, actively endorsing
Speaker:the continued colonization and oppression of Palestinians, I have no idea how one can solve
Speaker:this because that is what's happening. We are... essentially signing off on that. When you look
Speaker:at the original agreement in the United Nations of the division of land, it resembles nothing.
Speaker:What is nothing even close to what is the distribution of land today, not even close. Almost like
Speaker:broken treaties. Yeah, exactly. It's not even close. So like, what the hell is anybody supposed
Speaker:to do? Like, what are the, nobody comes to help them. Nobody is helping. They're only ally.
Speaker:It's just such an absolute form of oppression. And then meanwhile, the conversations and narrative
Speaker:we have here, we're not allowed to question it. I mean, how often do you see, how often
Speaker:do you see, and Jess is as familiar with this as anybody else, whenever anybody speaks in
Speaker:defense of Palestinians, they get smeared as an anti-Semit. What the hell kind of motivation
Speaker:would we have to be anti-Semitic, really? I mean, let's... We stand consistently in defense
Speaker:of all oppressed people. Why is Palestine the exception? Why is it when we talk about Palestine,
Speaker:there is such a vitriol reaction that you get nowhere else? When we know the international
Speaker:laws, we've seen it. There have been countless reports as to the lived conditions, but yet
Speaker:it's antisemitic to speak against the continued oppression? It's a continued conflation between
Speaker:One, the state of Israel and Judaism, which are not the same thing. Also a conflation between.
Speaker:And it's anti-Semitic to say that they are. And it is. And a conflation between Muslims
Speaker:and Palestine, which is also not true because Palestine is not just. Or Palestine and Hamas.
Speaker:Yeah. And Palestine is not just Muslim. Palestine is also Christian. There's also many Muslims
Speaker:living. in Israel. What we're talking about here is the oppression and colonization of
Speaker:a peoples. This smear, it's what brought down Jeremy Corbyn's campaign. They tried to smear
Speaker:Bernie Sanders with it back in the day, which didn't really stick because he's Jewish. They
Speaker:tried to smear Noam Chomsky for the same reason. Once again, didn't work because he's Jewish.
Speaker:We don't have such defenses. But does any- It's just, it's so comical and I had to address
Speaker:this because we know as we record this, we know what to expect. We know what to expect as a
Speaker:response to speaking out on this. We know what is going to happen because it happens every
Speaker:single time. Why are we not allowed to speak in defense of an oppressed people is beyond
Speaker:me. I think it has to do with the timing. So I kind of want to talk about that. I think
Speaker:people took offense to how quickly. me personally, you know, or anybody else was willing to say,
Speaker:free Palestine, or the like, so quickly after what was happened. How dare you? Right? Any
Speaker:showing of support of Palestine in this moment inherently means you support what they've done.
Speaker:You support what Hamas is doing. And that's a false correlation. That's an absolute false
Speaker:correlation. The reason why I wanted to assert my support for Palestinian people immediately,
Speaker:and as did thousands of people across the world, tens of thousands of rallies, or tons of rallies
Speaker:across the world in support of the people of Palestine, that were vilified—we'll get into
Speaker:that in a second—but the reason it needed to happen right away is because we fucking knew.
Speaker:We fucking knew as soon as the details started to come in that— the silencing of Palestinian
Speaker:advocacy would ramp up. Because, I mean, just last week, our episode was called, Courage
Speaker:Needed, Advocating for Palestine. And that's never been more true. It was already an uncomfortable
Speaker:thing to do. Why? Because like Santiago said, every time you're labeled an anti-Semite, like
Speaker:every fucking time. I, as a- the president of a small chapter of Amnesty International tried
Speaker:to defend a mural that had been chosen by students to go up, and it depicted a Palestinian holding
Speaker:a rock behind their back and a tank in the foreground. And that was too violent. That was anti-Semitic.
Speaker:To even depict Palestinian resistance with a fucking rock against a tank, a rock. It's a
Speaker:young protester, like you've seen them, like we've described the ages of the people that
Speaker:are in Gaza, fucking children fighting for their future because they've just seen what's unfolded
Speaker:and there's no hope. And even depicting a modicum of resistance from these people was enough
Speaker:to get articles written in the paper to dox me to call me an anti-Semite for simply saying
Speaker:that that... painting has a right to exist and it is not anti-Semitic to simply say a free
Speaker:Palestine or to say that they deserve it or that they could even fight for it. It doesn't
Speaker:matter what I've done. I just marshaled one time. I got called seven months pregnant. I'm
Speaker:seven months pregnant and I got called to marshal an event and I went because it was for students
Speaker:at York and they likely didn't know how to safely marshal such a heated event. I had done a lot
Speaker:of that work. And so some comrades called and we got it. They had a bunch of volunteers.
Speaker:I had no role. I just showed up, put the vest on, got my instructions. And it was hell. The
Speaker:protest simply wanted to remove IDF personnel from York University because they were holding
Speaker:events there. And that's it. That was the demands. And the resistance they faced was incredible.
Speaker:from campus, mostly from off campus, absolute, absolute hatred being spewed at us the whole
Speaker:time. The things I heard them say to the Palestinian comrades, so you have to imagine, I am facing
Speaker:the opponents. I am trying to protect the students, which was not a good idea, being pregnant,
Speaker:but I think I underestimated how heated this would get, and I was being shoved. So I'm shoved
Speaker:over and over and over again so that they could get closer to Palestinian students, like 19,
Speaker:20, 21 year olds, and scream racist bullshit in their face, calling them the most horrible
Speaker:names imaginable. And I moved with this crowd everywhere they went, right? Tried to get access
Speaker:to the speakers, it was trying to maneuver around security, it was fluid, so I was everywhere.
Speaker:I never heard anything anti-Semitic at all. And the newspaper articles that got written
Speaker:about that rally just fucking lied. The chance that they said that they said never happened.
Speaker:Not one video showed up, but multiple videos showed up of the violence that was inflicted
Speaker:on the Palestinian protesters over and over again and nothing that was never mentioned.
Speaker:Even fucking Jagmeet Singh comes out and condemns the fucking anti-Semitism that occurred and
Speaker:he wasn't there. and they only took the word of one side and never ever interviewed us.
Speaker:And Sue Ann Levy, she calls me an anti-Semite. I was just a marshal, someone recognized me
Speaker:because I think I'd already run for the NDP. And so again, my name, my fucking phone number
Speaker:everywhere. Again, I'm getting calls at like eight o'clock in the morning telling me they
Speaker:hope my kids die. My kid who is half Jewish. And I'd hung up as much as possible, but like
Speaker:I told one. one woman that called, like, you have no idea the terror you're visiting upon
Speaker:me. And this is all I did. I am seven months pregnant, and I marshaled a protest. None of
Speaker:what you described happened. And they did not fucking care. It was pure vitriol. And that's
Speaker:me. I'm not even Palestinian. So my thoughts always go to, like, how are they breathing
Speaker:right now? How are my Palestinian comrades even functioning? considering what they were already
Speaker:up against and now this. So that's why it was so important for me to put that flag up immediately,
Speaker:and I never fly flags. I hate flags, I hate nationalism, but we talked, there is a certain
Speaker:nuance when it comes to indigenous nations that are fighting for fucking survival and asserting
Speaker:their nationhood. And it was important to fly that flag then because it's never been more
Speaker:important to say, free Palestine, because if we don't now, we won't be allowed to later.
Speaker:The UK Home Secretary has just suggested that they are going to make it illegal to fly the
Speaker:Palestinian flag and they are going to ban certain chants. Certain Arab chants is how they described
Speaker:it. And so it was more important because I understand the imbalance that occurs in the media and
Speaker:the narratives that happen. I think I underestimated it because Olivia Chow's tweet was just fucking
Speaker:next level. But then it became so painfully obvious that if there was any voices left on
Speaker:the left that had the courage to speak up, we had to scream. And we do. Right? People need
Speaker:to be unrelenting. You cannot be afraid to be uncomfortable right now. I don't care what
Speaker:your settler friends are saying. The fucking correlations that people are drawing too, it's
Speaker:thrown at me so you'd be okay if indigenous people here killed all of us and took their
Speaker:land back. Like, what do you think? People are fucking savages? That's the narrative you're
Speaker:fucking playing into. Don't create the conditions to which Palestine is living under. Why? Are
Speaker:you planning on putting, are you planning on making it even worse for indigenous people?
Speaker:I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't push people to the brink like that because you don't know
Speaker:what's going to happen. Well, we do, well, we do. I mean, it's, that really said so much,
Speaker:that rant. It's so one sided. And when we look at, you know, when we talk about like this
Speaker:media narrative, it's so absolute, you know, CTV, Montreal and BBC both ran headlines where
Speaker:they were talking about the casualties on both sides and when it's Israelis, they said killed,
Speaker:or Palestinians dead. That was the headline. How did they die? Just. happen to and you see
Speaker:these headlines all the time when it comes to Palestine, you see the bias and it's so, it's
Speaker:so painfully obvious for media. I mean, I am in journalism school and you know, they talk
Speaker:the big game about objectivity and impartiality. But you see how that gets thrown out the window
Speaker:with certain topics, because there has been no partial, there's been no symmetry whatsoever.
Speaker:They will. publish a one-sided story quoting only IDF, not ever asking the other side as
Speaker:they say that you're supposed to do in journalism. They just run with it. And go take a look at
Speaker:like some of the stuff that's been written. Like, I mean, I read an op-ed in an Australian
Speaker:newspaper, actively calling for genocide, with the words genocide. Or like, you know, sometimes
Speaker:genocide's necessary, was what the article was saying. What a fucking moment to be alive,
Speaker:because we had Nazi apologists talking about nuance, you know, not that long ago. And it's
Speaker:like we're completely rewriting history. And everyone around us has just absolved Israel
Speaker:of their wrongdoing. It's like those Israeli civilian deaths have given a green light to
Speaker:exterminate Palestinians. And this has happened before. This is how it happens. After 9-11,
Speaker:we soaked up all that vitriol, and we allowed Afghanistan and Iraq to be destroyed under
Speaker:the name of terror. And we continue to allow massive amounts of civilian deaths at the hands
Speaker:of our so-called allies in the name of the war on terror. What is terrorism if it isn't— imprisoning
Speaker:people indefinitely and exiling millions of people and telling them they can't return ever.
Speaker:These words, they carry power and meaning and they're being used without any caution whatsoever.
Speaker:And when I say caution, I mean, look at the way, as we were just mentioning with the fricking
Speaker:Nazi that we applauded in the parliament and looking at... at everything to do with Ukraine
Speaker:and Russia, the infinite amount of people calling for all the nuance in the world. Oh yeah, but
Speaker:you have to consider this, you have to consider that. And that's how it shows you how we act
Speaker:towards allies versus those people we deem enemies. Because when it's someone that we deem an ally,
Speaker:there's always infinite nuance to be looked at. And to be fair, that nuance is bullshit.
Speaker:There's no nuance take on... Nazis in World War II in Ukraine. We know all the history
Speaker:there. It is absolute revisionism. We know what the history was there. There is no nuance to
Speaker:be had. And if we do have the nuance, we're going to come out to the same conclusion is
Speaker:what I'm trying to say. Meanwhile, And there's absolutely no critical thinking whatsoever
Speaker:occurring when it comes to the defense of Palestinians. And one thing is like the use of the word terrorist,
Speaker:which is such a loaded term, is being used without any question across Western media. Right? And
Speaker:that's their favorite word. Yeah. And we look at like, okay, how do you define it? Well,
Speaker:we know that certain countries, Canada, as one of them has... designated Hamas a terrorist
Speaker:organization. And so everybody runs with the word terrorist and terrorists has such a reaction
Speaker:in Western mind. Meanwhile, and I'm not for the record, I'm not here defending Hamas, but
Speaker:I am saying of the quickness they are to use these words and these terminology. in apartheid
Speaker:South Africa, they called Nelson Mandela a terrorist as well. Everybody who is an enemy, we quickly
Speaker:use the term terrorist for. And then, and then that's used to justify actions against Palestinians
Speaker:who have no connection whatsoever to Hamas because all of these children who are currently being
Speaker:killed by these bombs in Gaza, what connection do they have to Hamas? The one thing about
Speaker:the terrorism label that is important here is it strictly legitimizes state violence. State
Speaker:violence is never considered terrorism. Of course, we will call the US Army terrorists. We know
Speaker:what they've done. And perhaps other people could apply that label, but in reality, it's
Speaker:not. It's not something the media uses to describe. We surely don't call our allies terrorists
Speaker:even when they commit the same exact actions that we have seen militias carry out, insurgency
Speaker:groups, however you want to describe them, rather than calling them a terrorist group. Because
Speaker:every time we hear these stories, including coups that occur, history is erased from the
Speaker:story. The context under which it occurred, the colonialism, the imperialism. It's all
Speaker:erased, or the level of violence is diminished. State violence doesn't have to be white phosphorus
Speaker:or bombs of residential areas. Violence is also the starvation of civilian populations, the
Speaker:denial of electricity, employment, mobility rights. That— It's violent to completely remove
Speaker:people's human rights and dignity. It is. It's far more painful to die of starvation than
Speaker:it is to be taken out by an Israeli sniper. But they do both, continually. And I don't
Speaker:know if people are just too tired or desensitized or what, but the same people who never say
Speaker:boo about Palestine. I had one person come at me. demanding I condone the murder of Israeli
Speaker:citizens. And even though I said I do not celebrate them, they labeled me a terrorist supporter,
Speaker:knowing me. Right? They have labeled me a dear, dear comrade of mine has said that means I
Speaker:must support. killing of women and children, that the sharing simply of the map of Gaza,
Speaker:the shrinking map of Gaza, simply sharing that is to condone. violence against civilians.
Speaker:And those leaps are absolutely made to silence us. Some folks might not do it on purpose,
Speaker:but they're swallowing narratives that they're hearing around them, and those are to silence
Speaker:resistance of any kind. Of any kind. Believe me, the Canadian government is sending a message
Speaker:to indigenous people right now by putting that Israeli flag up there. Because they don't condone
Speaker:it because that's what they would fucking do. And that's what they use, right? They use violence
Speaker:from the RCMP. We've used colonial violence for eons. We will forcibly remove you with
Speaker:the OPP, even if you're on Mohawk territory. This is how we would respond as well. So it's
Speaker:no, no wonder we find kindred spirits in the state of Israel. And that reminds me of one
Speaker:thing I mentioned to Jess earlier is when it comes to being labeled as, as anti-Semitic
Speaker:is how ridiculous would it be? if every time that we criticized Canada's oppression, colonization,
Speaker:genocide against the Indigenous people here, if we were labeled as racist against white
Speaker:people, right? Everybody would, well, not everybody, but it would be very blatant how ridiculous
Speaker:such a claim would be. But we're not faced with the same, that doesn't happen though. That
Speaker:doesn't, and we speak constantly on- Yes, it does. You know, people laugh at that. People
Speaker:don't laugh at the anti-Semite. That sticks, right? I feel like I can't even talk about
Speaker:anti-Semitism. That does fucking exist. I know it exists, right? We see it. But that label
Speaker:has been thrown at me so many times simply for my advocacy of Palestine, and nothing I have
Speaker:actually ever said that was anti-Semitic. And so I feel like I can't even wait into that
Speaker:conversation. I can't even fight against anti-Semitism because I'm likely not welcome. And it's loaded
Speaker:to me now because it visits me every time I open my mouth on Palestine. And it's such an
Speaker:ironic claim too, because we're, I mean, we're socialists here. And where is anti-Semitism
Speaker:more common than anywhere else is in the far right circles. Everything in the far right
Speaker:eventually comes back to anti-Semitism. It's funny, like... To be fair, there are very racist
Speaker:socialists out there, misogynistic socialists. So not everybody kind of fully embraces...
Speaker:Absolutely. It's just more of a statement of how common anti-Semitism is in right-wing circles.
Speaker:It's funny because whenever you see... I remember Andrew Callaghan, when I would watch his videos
Speaker:and... He would go to like flat earth conventions and things like this and all these different
Speaker:things and everything always comes back to anti-Semitism. All of their conspiracy theories, everything
Speaker:comes back to anti-Semitism. It's so prevalent. And also it's worth mentioning that a lot of
Speaker:funding that goes to Israel comes from the Bible Belt in the United States where extreme evangelicals
Speaker:believe that if the... Jewish people take full control over the land of Israel, that they
Speaker:will bring upon revelation, the apocalypse. And that, you know, and then the Israeli people,
Speaker:because they don't believe in Jesus or something, will not be allowed into heaven, but all of
Speaker:the good Christians will be allowed. I understand. That is a huge... They die in the apocalypse,
Speaker:according to them. So they will be there. It's a huge... It'll be terra nullis again. Yeah,
Speaker:but that they have to take the land to do that. And that's a big thing. There's a lot of funding
Speaker:that comes from that. Nobody ever talks about that. It's absolutely ridiculous. But that's
Speaker:a huge thing. Like, please. I did not want to know that. It's absurd. And that's the thing
Speaker:is that whenever these issues that bring up such guttural emotional reactions in people,
Speaker:it's like all critical thinking goes out the window. Please. We are doing, like before coming
Speaker:into this studio to record this episode, like I was thinking so much about like I was measuring
Speaker:angles and doing all the research I could and like taking this very seriously because we
Speaker:take this very seriously. We're not just speaking here out of emotional reactions with no thought.
Speaker:I mean, this is an issue that I have been informing myself on for years and I've been listening
Speaker:to others. first, before ever speaking on this issue. I have been listening for years. I have
Speaker:not spoken openly on this issue. I have tweeted about it, but I have never spoken on a podcast
Speaker:about this issue before. Right? We're not reacting here out of just, this is not reactionary knee-jerk
Speaker:shit. This is, we're thinking about things. And I say that because so much of the reactions
Speaker:thrown at us, so much of the criticism that will then get thrown at us is clearly not listening
Speaker:to anything we're saying. It's not listening to the points that we make. That's a huge theme.
Speaker:Just repeating the same lines back at us. That means you support this. That means you support
Speaker:this. And not touching anything else. And the framing of this as a religious war is so dangerous
Speaker:for so many reasons. But it also erases the fact that this is an armed resistance against
Speaker:an illegal occupation. That's the purpose of it, right? They are attacking Jews because
Speaker:they're Jews. No, they're attacking Israelis because they are part of an illegal occupation.
Speaker:Many settlers are active participants in this apartheid. They have weaponry. They are burning
Speaker:the olive trees. They are going in and knowingly inhabiting homes that used to belong to Palestinians,
Speaker:and they have the army right beside them to do it. This is not passive civilians, okay?
Speaker:These are not like settlers in Canada who've just bought a house and then someone tells
Speaker:them it's part of like unceded treaty land. No, this is a big to do. It's a violent act
Speaker:that occurs and settlers move in. There are politicians that absolutely should know better,
Speaker:that are feeding into this very anti-Semitic angle that is attack on Jewish people, and
Speaker:that Jewish people across the globe are now somehow in imminent danger from Palestinians.
Speaker:Right? We're framing the flag as a symbol of hate. We've had Toronto police demand protesters
Speaker:take down their flag because of safety reasons. And a large part of this is due to Mayor Olivia
Speaker:Chow. She had by far, I think of all Canadian politicians, the worst set of tweets imaginable.
Speaker:I don't have the screenshots, so I'm going to paraphrase, because she's deleted the first
Speaker:two. I'm sure it's out there. So she releases one. It's awful. It's. you know, condemns the
Speaker:violence, but then goes on to say she's working with Toronto police to ensure the Jewish community
Speaker:is safe. Does not mention, like already retribution is happening, does not mention Palestine at
Speaker:all, or Palestinians. And that message implicitly denies that Palestinians are criminal in Canada.
Speaker:It's not a statement about Hamas, right? She doesn't think Hamas is here and going to attack
Speaker:Israeli targets. That has not been suggested. They do not have that intelligence. This is
Speaker:the mayor just acting on a set narrative that is absolutely disgusting. And she tries to
Speaker:follow it up with one of these both sides tweets two hours later, you know, attach it to that
Speaker:statement as an, oh, I acknowledge that losing life on both sides is bad. But... still doesn't
Speaker:really acknowledge the occupation at all. She waits a few hours, she takes those down and
Speaker:she puts up just a hot mess of piece, a hot piece of garbage. Then she tweets out about
Speaker:an unsanctioned rally. You don't need a permit. There's no office, there's no application to
Speaker:get a permit for a rally like that in the city of Toronto. The mayor should fucking know that.
Speaker:She knows that. Jack Layton went to the Supreme Court. Kudos to Hassan. of Migrant Rights Network
Speaker:for reminding us of all of that. But she says there's an unsanctioned rally that Toronto
Speaker:police will be dispatched and they will crack down on any instances of hate. Where the fuck
Speaker:was this kind of response when Nazis were flying their flags and all the
Speaker:I am not advocating for a police response to this, but the fact that when she does this,
Speaker:a progressive mayor, she gets up there where Palestinians were working on her fucking campaign,
Speaker:and she has to say this, that sticks big time. And this has been something that has come from
Speaker:politicians across the spectrum, NDP, liberal, conservatives, all over Canada, provincially,
Speaker:all over the place. We've seen this same kind of message. And in the media... has also done
Speaker:a horrible job covering this. So for the average Canadian who does not know, who is not informed
Speaker:on the nuance of Israel-Palestine, it's overwhelming, like the picture painting of Palestine as the
Speaker:sole aggressor here, as a sole aggressor, as the one completely in the wrong, and Israel
Speaker:has the right to defend itself. You said it. You said the magic phrase. I was like, we got
Speaker:to get to that. Because that is not the right to defend themselves at all. They're not the
Speaker:defenders. What have you guys been watching? It's actually it's actually like complete opposite
Speaker:to what international law says in this situation, which is like, no, you're not you're actually
Speaker:not allowed to carry out collective punishment, which is what is happening. OK, wait. I don't
Speaker:want to sound like Mike Gibbs, but I wrote a paper on that. And international law fucking
Speaker:sucks. I'll tell you why. I'm chewing a skittle, I apologize. I needed moisture. Sorry. That's
Speaker:so awkward, but I know where I'm at. What international law allows for and what allows the US to act
Speaker:with such impunity all the time is preemptive measures. And there's really no criteria for
Speaker:a state to provide. to prove that they were under imminent threat or danger. So arguably
Speaker:the war on terror was framed as preventing another terrorist attack. And because like a self-defense
Speaker:law, a really bad one, like a stand your ground kind of law, you can shoot first if you think
Speaker:your state is under attack. And so... The US has applied this argument to justify their
Speaker:drone strikes for quite some time, and it has been, like I said, very effective. And while
Speaker:we mention those drone strikes, I need to mention 90% of which don't kill their intended target
Speaker:and only kill civilians, right? Just as we're talking about killing civilians. Well, apparently
Speaker:you're not a civilian. I saw people tweet that there is no Palestinian civilians because they
Speaker:all support Hamas. So people are taking the most dehumanizing... angles in this. Which
Speaker:is also just ignorant to... I mean, first of all, West Bank has Fatah, which is just going
Speaker:on there, not Hamas. So like when you're saying Palestinians, West Bank is still Palestinians,
Speaker:you know? But it's... This whole narrative has been absolutely absurd. And meanwhile, go over
Speaker:to Europe for a second. These same narratives which are being said by the same politicians
Speaker:there. then led to an attempt for the European Union to freeze aid to Palestine. Luckily it
Speaker:was blocked by Ireland, Spain, Luxembourg and Denmark. Shout out to the Irish for consistently
Speaker:being... Based. Yeah, consistently being based. But there was an attempt, like these are not
Speaker:just words, there was an attempt to freeze aid. When we heard, we already mentioned the statement
Speaker:by the Israeli defense minister to freeze all food, electricity, water, you know. So where
Speaker:does that leave people? So they're asking to freeze aid because of an attack against civilians.
Speaker:But then Gaza, which is over 50% of children, gets punished. Yeah, they're only going to
Speaker:exasperate the conditions what led to this. You know, you're creating desperate people
Speaker:with no room for hope. And I think it's obviously poignant that Ireland played a role in that
Speaker:and is likely one of the only ones that is going to be seen on the right side of history here
Speaker:because they absolutely know what it's like to stand on the world stage by themselves.
Speaker:and demand independence, and they know what it's like to be vilified for using violence
Speaker:to gain that independence, but they did. You know, civilians did die, and that was devastating
Speaker:to those people's families. But I think, as a settler, I don't know what a fight for liberation
Speaker:looks like. No, no idea. And it probably, it does, it terrifies me, and it terrifies people
Speaker:to think of what it might look like, especially if you're cognizant that you are on stolen
Speaker:land. It creates a lot of unknowns. What is the solution then? What does that mean for
Speaker:me? But in this time, it's a time to be uncomfortable. It's a time to kind of reflect on your position
Speaker:within that settler society. And that's something I want to speak on from a personal level for
Speaker:a moment. There is something I want to address there. As I speak on Israel-Palestine, I need
Speaker:to address my own background. because it does play a role here, of which I still have to
Speaker:fully unpack, but I've mentioned before, like I am Colombian, but my dad is Lebanese. He
Speaker:grew up during the war, the civil war in Lebanon. And he actually, he wrote a book about it and
Speaker:everything, but, and I've read the tales of that, and I've gone and I've seen... You know,
Speaker:where my family lived in Lebanon, I've seen the bullet holes, I've seen the destruction,
Speaker:because that destruction is still there to this day. One thing that's terrifying, like, one
Speaker:thing to show the desensitization that happens, I have a relative who has an unexploded mortar
Speaker:as a decoration in their backyard, which is just absurd. Maybe don't visit that cousin.
Speaker:Yeah, no, but, um, and my family is, um... be clear, the Maronite Christian who I consider
Speaker:to be on the wrong side of history in that war, the phalanges who were inspired by Spanish
Speaker:fascists. And so I say that because as I speak on these matters, I don't think of this issue
Speaker:as the ax abstract. It's very easy to talk about issues on the other side of the world and not
Speaker:really think about the real human. costs here, like the real conditions. I've seen, when I
Speaker:was in Lebanon and I went in 2019, I drove from north to south, from Tripoli to Tire, I'd forget
Speaker:the cities in the south, but I was in Hezbollah controlled areas. I went close to the border
Speaker:of Syria. I heard mortar fire and machine guns fired in the air and the mortar fire being
Speaker:fired from Lebanon into Syria. I've seen the destruction. So I say this because, and I also
Speaker:saw the Palestinian refugee camps in the South and the conditions that they're living in.
Speaker:I didn't venture into them myself personally, but I could see them as we were driving by.
Speaker:And so I say this because I'm not thinking about this in the abstract. I think of the real human
Speaker:costs and the real human issues here. And I'm conscious of how my own background plays into
Speaker:the way I could think about this and I'm unpacking what that means. And I've heard stories of
Speaker:family members being blown up by car bombs. And I remember, like my dad speaking of when
Speaker:he was a kid, wanting to grow up and fight to protect Lebanon, fight for the phalanges. grab
Speaker:him and get the hell out and go to Colombia because she didn't want to see her son grow
Speaker:up and be radicalized as an ultra right-wing nationalist. It's difficult, these topics,
Speaker:it's difficult. They're caught like finding a solution out of all of these things. It's
Speaker:all just horrible. It is horrible, but I don't even know where I'm going with that fully.
Speaker:But I felt the need to say it as I speak on these issues because it's important to acknowledge
Speaker:why we, the things that influence us, right? I feel like a lot of people are not taking
Speaker:a second to think about what is influencing them. Why do we choose to believe the things
Speaker:we do? Are we just blindly following along to the first thing we heard, the first piece of
Speaker:information we're exposed to and just go off of that? I don't know. It's far more complicated
Speaker:than that. And I'm... I just needed to acknowledge that because I feel like that doesn't get acknowledged
Speaker:often. As a settler in particular, I never criticize the tactics used by Indigenous resistance.
Speaker:Never. That goes for many movements that I don't have the lived experience to understand where
Speaker:they're coming from or the tactics that have already been tried or the vision for the future.
Speaker:I am not privy to all that information, so I don't. I do listen to lived experience. I do
Speaker:listen to my Palestinian comrades and absorb myself in this, and I have for so long. Right?
Speaker:Like, I am a little bit older than Santiago. I remember South African apartheid. And as
Speaker:a child, I remember being taught exactly what was happening, why it was wrong, and why people
Speaker:needed to resist it. I am Scottish, and I was also raised to understand the resistance that
Speaker:went there against the English, where the Scottish only had rocks and rudimentary weapons to fend
Speaker:off the English from colonizing them, and the violence that was experienced there. So I know
Speaker:it happens. It's. We know it happens. I don't... I take a lot of that at face value. I think
Speaker:that's what's missing from a lot of people is listening to real lived experiences. And as
Speaker:someone who soaks up so much empathy, although I don't know what it feels like to have to
Speaker:fight for my freedom.
Speaker:I believe the feelings that have been shared with me that I then feel. Like if you're not
Speaker:really empathetic, you might not know what that is, but.
Speaker:I don't know how people don't experience things that way. I don't know how you... That's why
Speaker:I wonder how my Palestinian comrades are even functioning, just trying to think of what's
Speaker:happening to their family over there, watching the images that are coming across, running
Speaker:through the scenarios that they're going to have to face because this is unfolding the
Speaker:way that it is. And that is so overwhelming. Speaking on those images, one thing that really
Speaker:stuck with me... is the images of buildings in Gaza that are one second they're there standing
Speaker:and the next second they're rubble. Some of these images came directly from, I remember
Speaker:I saw one that was shared directly from Benjamin Netanyahu's Twitter account where he was bragging
Speaker:about it. Yeah, there was a video of a building in Gaza and someone you know I I was looking
Speaker:around in Toronto and I was looking at some of the buildings and I couldn't help but think
Speaker:like, you know, what that would mean here. Imagine like one of these buildings, these residential
Speaker:buildings just being obliterated. Can you imagine? And not just one building. We're talking about
Speaker:hundreds of missile strikes at this point. It's like what you saw times many, many more. Imagine
Speaker:an entire neighbourhood wiped out. That would be a core part of Canadian history for generations
Speaker:to come. But it's become normalized in Gaza. I think a lot of people are desensitized to
Speaker:it, but the fact that Israeli leaders can, with such impunity, be bragging about this, calling
Speaker:for genocide. Declaring I am about to commit a war crime I'm like surely they must know
Speaker:we are seeing the white phosphorus being used and they don't give a shit It goes back to
Speaker:that first clip where they have been able to do what they have done for 75 years Not just
Speaker:with impunity but with explicit fucking support Financial political you name it the globe has
Speaker:essentially lined up on the wrong side And it's because the Western powers created this mess
Speaker:in the first place. They created conditions of anti-Semitism that were so bad that it allowed
Speaker:Hitler to do what he did and it prevented Jewish people from going anywhere else because Canada
Speaker:turned them away too. Right? Canada did not want Jewish refugees. And so the solution that
Speaker:they came up with was completely unacceptable. And it was of their own making. And like normal,
Speaker:like all of the colonial bullshit that we do, we never want to be seen as the provocateur,
Speaker:or we definitely don't want to be seen as the responsible party for fixing it. And so Western
Speaker:powers are just like, yeah, we'll just keep arming Israel to the teeth and hope this mess
Speaker:goes away. And by that, I think they mean that until Gaza is gone. Back to that whole right
Speaker:to defend itself, that irks me for so many reasons. To me, it's almost like saying all lives matter.
Speaker:Nobody is fucking arguing that Israel can defend itself. They have an iron dome. I don't know
Speaker:how many nations send them arms or incredible amounts of aid to purchase arms. They all have
Speaker:bunkers in their house. It is law that you have a bunker in your home. They are prepared to
Speaker:defend themselves. There's no need to carpet bomb Gaza. to defend themselves. And there's
Speaker:nobody saying that they can't do that. Of course, every state has a right to defend themselves.
Speaker:They mean Israel has a right to annihilate their enemy. Because when you defend yourself, you
Speaker:don't just, you don't kill your attacker and their family. Right? In no place would that
Speaker:be okay. Even if you had, it's just, it's absolutely ridiculous. And they use that term, it's so
Speaker:couched, right? Like it sounds so innocuous to say, oh, well they have the right to defend
Speaker:themselves. And everyone's like, yeah, of course, sure. But that is essentially code for Israel
Speaker:can do whatever the fuck they want now. You know, Palestinians fucked around and they're
Speaker:gonna find out. Like that is the real attitude. And not just bots, you know, like I'm engaging
Speaker:with real people that I know that think that this response is what you get. And it's like
Speaker:this collective amnesia that I'm really struggling to cope with. But like the power imbalance
Speaker:is just missing from all of these discussions. And so I wanted to make sure that we spent
Speaker:time discussing the context, discussing the conditions that exist that would help explain
Speaker:what is happening. But you know, I fucking knew. I fucking knew the second you heard, you know,
Speaker:that it would be such an uphill battle, that there would be an attempt to be made to just
Speaker:stop all Palestinian advocacy. And I imagine it has silenced a lot of people. Well, I've
Speaker:seen it change people. It's and it's we've seen the silence. I mean, I wish Olivia had been
Speaker:silent. Silence would have been better. Yeah, silence would have been better. But also, you
Speaker:know what, like God, I don't even want to lower the bar that low because Olivia Chow has all
Speaker:the background knowledge to know better. You know, it's much like with Christia Freeland
Speaker:and how we know that she should have known better when it comes to the Nazi that they welcomed
Speaker:and applauded in parliament. A lot of these progressives are exposed to these arguments.
Speaker:And yet... the silence has been deafening. Over the past couple days, it's been deafening.
Speaker:I haven't heard nearly enough. And you know why? You know, we were nervous coming into
Speaker:the studio. It is a hard topic to talk about and even harder now. And... But it... One thing
Speaker:I told Jessel was, and sorry to interrupt, but it shouldn't be this hard to talk about this.
Speaker:If a country can bomb children... in that way indiscriminately with white phosphorus which
Speaker:is chemical warfare. That is. How can we not argue against that? How can we be afraid to
Speaker:argue against that? This should not be a situation where we are afraid to speak because of the
Speaker:repercussions, because of the consequences. Like, that is so absurd to me. And yet we are,
Speaker:yet we are. Like, I'm, I get nervous. It's not just fear though. It's exhaustion too. Cause
Speaker:I've gotten messages from some Palestinian comrades or Palestinian allies, or rather, allies of
Speaker:the Palestinian cause, who are just not in the place to withstand the barrage. that will face
Speaker:them if they speak out right now, that they are too worried about family. They are already
Speaker:carrying a heavy load, personally fucking COVID. Life is hard already. And so to open yourself
Speaker:up, is throwing self care out the window for an extended period of time. Because I'll tell
Speaker:you, it has been exhausting. And every time that I cry, about. losing friends over this,
Speaker:or I get stressed out about all of the hate that comes my way. It's awful, but the only
Speaker:solace I find is thinking...
Speaker:what other people were probably going through of how much harder this is for Palestinians
Speaker:in Canada, how much even harder it is right now for Palestinians in Gaza. And then I stopped
Speaker:feeling sorry for myself and I try to get back out there. But if you thought talk Twitter
Speaker:was toxic before social media was toxic before, it's so awful right now. And I wasn't going
Speaker:to share this, but Because the lasting message that I want to leave with people is you need
Speaker:to be very loud right now, even though it's going to hurt. And even though there's this
Speaker:pit in your stomach of horror of what we've witnessed. that those acts can't silence you.
Speaker:I called my dad over Thanksgiving and, well, he knew because of who I am and what I've done
Speaker:that I would be thinking of one thing only. So I'm trapped at a family cottage. I can't
Speaker:talk to anybody about this. So I finally get to talk to my dad and the first thing that
Speaker:he says to me is, you know, be careful. He doesn't mean like out there violently, he means watch
Speaker:what you say. not because he doesn't agree with what I'm going to say, because he just doesn't
Speaker:want to leave me open to what I might face. And I said this on the last episode, and it's
Speaker:true. It's every time I want to speak about Palestine, it runs through my head that I'll
Speaker:be attacked. You know, you have to kind of, you know, the way that my mind works, I run
Speaker:through all the scenarios for everything all at once. So, but this is a process that goes
Speaker:through my brain every single time I'm going to tweet, even if I'm going to like something.
Speaker:Like, it's just like, here we go, here we go. You got a brace for it. It takes courage. And
Speaker:I don't want to make myself sound brave, but I need you all to be absolutely fucking courageous,
Speaker:especially now, especially now, because if we don't, they will remove the powers that be.
Speaker:You've seen the way politicians are tweeting. It will become impossible. to effectively create
Speaker:a free Palestine, unless we push back now. And this isn't something that is just simply happening
Speaker:on the other side of the world and we're completely separate from. This conflict and these conditions
Speaker:exist because of the permission granted by Western countries, the permission and the aid granted
Speaker:by Western countries. We are not simply observers. We are... participants who are complicit in
Speaker:this brutalization. And it doesn't end as long as the West continues. to give it the go ahead
Speaker:and to supply the weapons and the funding. This is something that we created artificially.
Speaker:And it's so unfair to the people of Palestine to be surrounded by something so much bigger
Speaker:than them, to be honest. It feels so big and so overwhelming. I want to share another tidbit
Speaker:of when Santiago and I were getting ready to record. And you know, What are we going to
Speaker:bring up? What do we focus on? What do we have authority to speak on even? And the solution
Speaker:to the Palestine-Israel debacle, you know, there's so many loaded words. I don't, it's hard to,
Speaker:conflict, you know, occupation, whatever. I don't know the solution. That's not for me
Speaker:to decide. And you know, I said to Santiago, It was kind of like, well, what do we talk
Speaker:about if we don't have a solution? What can we do? Right. You and me, whoever's listening,
Speaker:you can't bring peace to Gaza. Certainly not single-handedly. And I think the fight has
Speaker:shifted a bit. So although we'll continue to.
Speaker:scream for a free Palestine, to demand an end to the occupation, an end to the blockades,
Speaker:better living conditions for Gazans, like you argue for it all, whatever the right to return,
Speaker:freeing political prisoners. All of that still has to continue, like I said. But now I think
Speaker:our most important job, especially as Canadian allies, is to make sure our Palestinian comrades
Speaker:can safely still do that. and so that the people in Gaza live to fight back again. Right, like
Speaker:we at the very least need to stop their annihilation because that is happening right now. All pressure
Speaker:needs to be on a complete cessation of bombing of Palestine. And the end of our governments
Speaker:celebrating that. But we also have to fight in the spaces. So at the NDP convention that's
Speaker:coming up and all of these even especially progressive spaces. that are going to find it a lot easier
Speaker:to just avoid this topic altogether, that isn't a solution at all. And as Michael Brooks put
Speaker:in the beginning of this episode, it's not a complex issue. It's actually a very simple
Speaker:issue. There is an oppressor and there's the oppressed. And we have always, always stood
Speaker:on the side of the oppressed. It's not that complicated.
Speaker:those who have nowhere to sleep. As you liberate yourself with metaphors, think of others, those
Speaker:who have lost their right to speak. As you think of others far away, think of yourself and say,
Speaker:if only I were a candle in the night. This is for Palestine, the capital Jerusalem Unarmed
Speaker:people marching to the wall and they're shooting them Suppression is a question, resistance
Speaker:is the answer Long live Palestine, long live Gaza Palestine, the capital Jerusalem Unarmed
Speaker:people marching to the wall and they're shooting them Suppression is a question, resistance
Speaker:is the answer Long live Palestine, long live Gaza All you see is war Every time you turn
Speaker:your head at night Lord shed on the floor mother cries you guys for this time truth between
Speaker:these walls see the lies between the lines they hide with the bullets coming from the tyrants
Speaker:dressed in our disguise
Speaker:until the end even if I got to push back for all my friends cause you know that I'm a fighter
Speaker:let me see you lighter and we not gonna stop the Palestine's break Don't you not know? Taught
Speaker:to be blind, taught to not care Tell me what's real Borderlines, military despair How to exist
Speaker:if there's no rights to be human in fear And if you take away your home, where's the heart
Speaker:supposed to live? Don't you not know? Taught to be blind, taught to not care Tell me what's
Speaker:real Borderlines, military despair How to exist if there's no rights to be human in fear And
Speaker:if you take away your home, where's the heart supposed to live? Me, my team, or you?
Speaker:I could resist without a wheelchair 10 year challenge, tell Reg if we are still here And
Speaker:tell that killer Netanyahu he should feel fear The old live through us and guarantee the children
Speaker:will care Criminal, not invincible and you know it Salmadoon, Salmadoon still sitting in their
Speaker:stoic May not feel us with you when you listen to our poems You inspire humanity, your resistance
Speaker:is heroic Regardless of talk, it is time we answer the call Through your strength of spirit
Speaker:you provide example for all How to live, how to love when attacked from the clouds above
Speaker:Loud and clear the songs you sung, can't be drowned by the sound of guns Won't just watch
Speaker:your tragic pain through a satellite dish The least that we can give you is an anthem like
Speaker:this They panic trade to analyze and sanitize this But we love you more than ever, still
Speaker:Palestine live free
Speaker:I'll sing it with me.
Speaker:to pay time to change this day no change no change no
Speaker:to face, no. Time to change this state, no change, no change, no. Continuing oppression of the
Speaker:Palestinians, encircling of the people of Gaza, the killing of civilians, the burning of homes,
Speaker:the daily oppression, the theft of land, the apartheid system. Bank where there are two
Speaker:road systems and I've been and I'm sure you have and you see the Israeli road you see like
Speaker:a spanking new highway with just the settler cars getting back and forth then you see the
Speaker:old Palestinian roads and it's clearly it's people living under two sets of laws an apartheid
Speaker:system so all this is being uncovered and the boycotts and divestment and sanctions campaign
Speaker:which I support and I'm sure many other people do as a peaceful protest against the Israeli
Speaker:oppression. The poor groups have got to keep proclaiming the rights of the Palestinians
Speaker:are the right to term, the right to their homeland. And the theft of land is, Israel is breaking
Speaker:international law, it is breaking the Geneva Convention.
