Suppressing Voices in the School Boards
Labour 4 Palestine Ontario Education Workers issued a scathing report in April 2025, on anti-Palestinian racism within the Province's school boards. The report, School Delegations for Palestine, documents and analyzes months of delegations given to Trustees across the Province that mostly went ignored.
Four Education Workers from various backgrounds talk about their personal experiences with suppression, weaponized antisemitism and other ways their workplaces are unwelcoming to any displays of humanity towards Palestine.
They also talk about the work being done to pressure school boards to cut ties with the problematic organizations that are largely responsible for fostering an environment of fear and anti-Palestinian racism.
Hosted by: Jessa McLean
Call to Action: Stay in Contact with Labour 4 Palestine
Related Episodes:
- A Space to Exist, a discussion with Toronto Palestinian Families and Toronto Jewish Families
- Our interview with Jews Say No to Genocide, on their work to dispel the Zionist narrative and advocate for a Free Palestine.
- Answering the Call: Labour for Palestine. A discussion with Anna Lippman on why this IS a Labour issue.
More Resources:
- READ REPORT: School Delegations Report
- VIDEOS: Watch various delegations and Board Updates
- Toronto school board to force educators to undergo mandatory re-education on ‘anti-Palestinian racism’ | The Post Millennial | thepostmillennial.com
- The Maple: A List Of Some People In Canada Fired For Pro-Palestine Views
- About — Labour 4 Palestine
Intro Clip Source: Critiquing the TDSB Israel Proposal: A Jewish Perspective | TikTok
📺YOU CAN CATCH US LIVE EVERY FRIDAY AT 12pm E.T. on our YouTube Channel.
All of our content is free - made possible by the generous sponsorships of our Patrons. If you would like to support our work through monthly contributions: Patreon
Transcript
I am a TDSB parent and I'm here today representing independent Jewish voices. I am Jewish, am
Speaker:anti-Zionist, I'm also an Israeli raised by diehard Zionist Israeli parents. I know the
Speaker:Zionist perspective, I was that perspective. And what I know about that perspective is
Speaker:that it is fundamentally rooted in fear. Fear of disappearing, fear of annihilation, fear
Speaker:of losing what Zionists believe is rightfully theirs. It's a fear so deeply rooted that
Speaker:it closes ranks, silences dissent and views any challenge as an central threat and this
Speaker:fear has been weaponized to perfection by the Israeli lobby to gaslight not just Palestinians,
Speaker:but all of us over the past 76 years. You, dear trustees, are afraid to say any of this
Speaker:out loud. And I get it. Each of you joining us today is operating from a place of fear.
Speaker:And it's not just you, it's every elected official from city hall to parliament. You are afraid
Speaker:of the pro-Israel lobby. You are afraid of being branded anti-Semitic. You are afraid that the
Speaker:decisions you make today could cost you your careers. And again, I get it. The lobbyists
Speaker:spent decades creating this gaslit environment where any criticism of Israel is equated with
Speaker:hatred of Jews, or even acknowledging Palestinian humanity can end careers. So while your fear
Speaker:no doubt feels real, I need you to know that it pales in comparison to the fear faced by
Speaker:your youngest constituents every single day. The Palestinian students who live in fear
Speaker:of being punished for simply existing. Imagine being a kid in school navigating all the challenges
Speaker:of growing up and then being told that your very identity, who you are as a person, is
Speaker:unwelcome or dangerous. So your job today is to grab that fear by the throat and remind
Speaker:yourself why you're here. You were elected to protect all students, not just some. Don't
Speaker:let fear dictate your decisions today. Don't let political pressure crush your integrity
Speaker:or your conscience. Be bold. Stand up for justice, for humanity, and most importantly, for every
Speaker:single last student who looks to you for protection. Free Palestine, free every square inch of
Speaker:Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Greetings. My name is Jess McLean. Welcome
Speaker:to Blueprints of Disruption, a podcast aimed at amplifying the work of the grassroots, sharing
Speaker:stories of resistance, and dismantling the status quo. Instead of our typical intro this week,
Speaker:you heard a delegation that was originally given to the Toronto District School Board here in
Speaker:Ontario. Not only does that clip help lay the groundwork for the next discussion with education
Speaker:workers, it does a great job of explaining how we got to this point. What point is that? Let's
Speaker:just say our public schools are not safe places for Palestinians or anyone expressing solidarity
Speaker:with Palestine. They're not safe places to call it the genocide or even the state of Israel.
Speaker:In a moment, you'll hear from educators themselves. You'll hear what they've learned from their
Speaker:own personal experiences with suppression, but also what they've learned from analyzing
Speaker:and amplifying the many delegations like the one you just heard that have been given to
Speaker:school boards across Ontario and surely across Canada. Evidence of anti-Palestinian racism,
Speaker:of erasure, isolation, silencing, discrimination, unfair reprisals, weaponized anti-Semitism,
Speaker:and more have been provided to school trustees over and over again. The vast majority of
Speaker:them refuse to act. Parent, teacher, and student activists have had to push them for every single
Speaker:inch. We previously had Toronto Palestinian families and Toronto Jewish families on to
Speaker:talk about their experience organizing and resisting within school communities. Now we're
Speaker:going to hear from education workers helping to further that work. Labour for Palestine,
Speaker:Ontario Education Workers United compiled and issued a report in April 2025 titled School
Speaker:Delegations for Palestine. their subtitle was taken from one of those delegations, it reads,
Speaker:mama, they simply cancel us. They don't care. We've called these folks into the studio to
Speaker:talk about that report, what they plan on doing with it, and why documenting all of these stories
Speaker:is so important to the fight for a free Palestine. Be sure to share the episode with a friend.
Speaker:You'll not just help boost the show, but also the work of these educators. There's also a
Speaker:ton of resources in the show notes as always, the report we reference here, calls to action,
Speaker:ways to get in touch with us and our guests, and more on the topic at hand. That's it for
Speaker:housekeeping. Let's get to the discussion. Okay, welcome to Blueprints of Disruption. We have
Speaker:quite a few guests with us today. We're going to take a brief second and meet them before
Speaker:we really get into why they are here. My name is Sheila. come here as a teacher, a parent,
Speaker:and a Palestinian. My father was born in Haifa in 1935, and he lived there until 1948 when
Speaker:his land was stolen. So I am a daughter of an Aqba survivor. I am Laura. I am an elementary
Speaker:school teacher, activist. settler colonizer on these lands, also an immigrant, and I'm
Speaker:happy to be here. My name is Nigel Barif. I'm a school teacher by profession. Right now
Speaker:I'm out of the classroom. I'm vice president at the Elementary Teachers of Toronto. I
Speaker:also do act as the anti-racism lead for the organization. My volunteer time is spent,
Speaker:I'm the chair of the Urban Alliance on race relations, 50 years we've been fighting for.
Speaker:And I also sit on the Canadian Anti-Hate Network where we research about how, what's happening
Speaker:with the far right here in Canada and internationally. And then I'm most, my biggest, most favourite
Speaker:job is my, is being a dad who gets to drive his son and his friend to soccer practice.
Speaker:So yeah, I really appreciate being here and thanks for having us all on. Hi, thank you.
Speaker:My name is Michelle. I am a math educator in the Toronto District School Board and I
Speaker:am a Jewish parent to two Jewish kids in the Toronto District School Board. This is a
Speaker:section of Labour for Palestine who we have had on the show a few times now. So the audience
Speaker:should be, I mean the Labour for Palestine name. sort of explains the premise of the organization,
Speaker:but Ontario Education Workers United. What was the impetus for starting that particular group?
Speaker:We, know that many of us came to the work of the Ontario Education Workers United through
Speaker:the, you know, what's happening in the public education system, what's happening in public
Speaker:services period in Ontario. We have one of the most right-wing, misogynistic governments
Speaker:that we've seen in my lifetime that has been crushing and underfunding public education,
Speaker:making it so challenging for school teachers and education workers just to come to work
Speaker:and do their job. And so a lot of the organizing that we did, in my opinion, kind of started
Speaker:around that. But then, of course, COVID hit. helping students and helping families respond
Speaker:to the COVID challenge and everything that went on with the far right and their convoy
Speaker:that they went across the country. So we found ourselves organizing against that. And then,
Speaker:you know, the most horrible thing that I've seen in my own lifetime, and I think a lot
Speaker:of us... really understand, I mean, we're school teachers. when you look at things like
Speaker:the Ontario College of Teachers, standards of practice, there's a, we have a fiduciary
Speaker:duty to care for students the same way that we would care for our own children. You know,
Speaker:when you look at the, you know, I'm a member of EFRO, the Elementary Teachers Federation
Speaker:of Ontario, and teacher unions have always fought against apartheid and injustice.
Speaker:And so I think it's just natural that there's many school teachers, because of their conscience,
Speaker:understand that standing up for our Palestinian siblings is just part of what we do as school
Speaker:teachers. That's how I kind of saw the timeline, but I'm not sure what Michelle and Laura might
Speaker:say. Like the timeline has always been there for a lot of... activists, like we've always
Speaker:been kind of doing this work, I think. And now we're, it's almost like for the last two years,
Speaker:we've merged, like my equity circles kind of merged to try to figure out, you know, this
Speaker:big right wing thing that's kind of like landed on us and then anti-Palestinian racism. It
Speaker:came out of the problem in and the silencing that teachers feel. And I don't, you know,
Speaker:I've always been in equity work as long as I've been an educator and it's never been so scary.
Speaker:I don't remember ever being so scared to speak truth. I've always taken like, I've always
Speaker:talked about political things in my classroom in terms of like social justice. And yeah,
Speaker:the last two years have been really intense and like a clamp down on that. So I'm not feeling
Speaker:like I could even be me. I mean, for me as a Palestinian, this has been my whole life.
Speaker:certainly did not start on October 7th. And I've kind of been in and out of research and
Speaker:being with my uncle, who's also a scholar. I visited Jerusalem. I visited my grandfather's
Speaker:grave there. So it's been a very personal. part of me, but I never talked about it at
Speaker:school. I never felt safe. Even before October 7th, I never talked about being Palestinian.
Speaker:I don't think any of my colleagues ever knew that I was Palestinian, even though my last
Speaker:name is Arabic, but I never talked about it because I'm half Palestinian. I don't look
Speaker:Palestinian. I don't look Arab, but it is part of my heritage and culture. Now after October
Speaker:7th, I was so disappointed with the board's response. And again, I felt silenced and
Speaker:I felt I had nowhere to turn and I didn't know who were my allies. I didn't know who I could
Speaker:talk to about this. You know, I never even used the word allies before October 7. My whole
Speaker:like, my whole words have changed like allies and martyrs and genocide has all come to play.
Speaker:So it's been very stressful to say the least and disappointing, disappointed on so many
Speaker:levels with our government, with my school board, my employer, it's been just a huge disappointment.
Speaker:But there is some rays of light that I think Michelle might talk about with our delegations.
Speaker:We've done, the teachers have done videos about divestment for pension. I've sent emails to
Speaker:MPs, the mayor. I use Facebook as a tool to educate people. I think I've probably lost
Speaker:a lot of friends, but I've gained about 3,000 followers. And I use LinkedIn. as I just
Speaker:wrote a very short post about my father being Palestinian and I got over a hundred thousand
Speaker:views on this post. So it just kind of blew up. So that's encouraging to me. I've had
Speaker:a lot of support on LinkedIn. One of the big reasons we drew you into the studio was another
Speaker:aspect of the work that you folks have been doing and that is gathering data and experiences
Speaker:that are happening throughout the boards that you work with for. I'm not sure the correct
Speaker:language there, but you've also, mean, Sheila just attested to the fact that she's never
Speaker:felt comfortable talking about her Palestinian heritage in that education system. So I guess
Speaker:what I'm looking for is At what point did you realize there needed to be very specific board
Speaker:work? In the early days of like before we started having any sort of data, what we realized
Speaker:was that there was no data and that there's this big gap in in examples of anti-Palestinian
Speaker:racism. And, you know, it's not in any it's not in like any of the portals like when schools
Speaker:are reporting incidents of hate. So because there was this gap in data, we tried to fill
Speaker:it up with it, because we knew there were stories. We were hearing a lot of stories from teachers,
Speaker:from families, but there was no way of capturing it and no one was capturing it. So it was just
Speaker:this collection of stories and experiences that kind of like lived on their own. And I think
Speaker:everyone kind of in their own way found little groups. For me, it was finding like scared
Speaker:teachers that like like who who has been scared to speak like come talk to us and like small
Speaker:little covert groups that go bigger and like you find out that someone else has experienced
Speaker:something and then we invited them in. And then it was looking at each like looking at
Speaker:every story to kind of map that on a on a sort of visual to tell people like the larger picture.
Speaker:And to kind of find out where to intervene, like where there could be some tangible work
Speaker:done, you know, like in your recommendations. A lot of you, we've shared your first names,
Speaker:Nigel, you shared the whole spiel, but not everybody feels comfortable doing this work
Speaker:out in the open, speaking on the record using, you know, the names that we've shared are not
Speaker:even necessarily your real names. We'll leave people guessing, right? But who would like
Speaker:to speak to why that work, a lot of it is done? anonymously what the atmosphere is like for
Speaker:educators specifically. We represent members across the Toronto District School Board. have
Speaker:over 10,000 of them and what I've observed is that we have an employer that has called
Speaker:members, school teachers and education workers to what they call opportunity to respond meetings.
Speaker:Well basically they're disciplinary meetings for for any activity or anything that would
Speaker:remotely look like you are being, you're showing any kind of love towards Palestinian
Speaker:community. And so they called them into these meetings for anything, whether it's doing
Speaker:a coloring activity or anything at all, that remotely shows any care towards Palestine.
Speaker:And while most of these meetings, the majority of these meetings, and with just the teacher
Speaker:being cautioned for their behavior, for it not to be anti-Semitism, it really has had
Speaker:a chilling effect. So it really scares teachers who see the actual teacher educator that went
Speaker:through this. I myself have received a notice from Benet Brith for LIBEL, for saying things
Speaker:like, they were spying on school teachers like Javier de Villa for saying things like they
Speaker:lied about children at Mark Garnot saying that they were chanting things that were just not,
Speaker:know, saying that they were accusing them of being anti-Semitic. And even when they were
Speaker:proven wrong, they still didn't walk it back. And so, and then there's of course this friends
Speaker:of Simon Weidenfell. who by the CBC in December, we saw that they were actually told their
Speaker:staff to spy on and report on children that showed any kind of love or solidarity or
Speaker:just caring for Palestinian children. and so, know, I know in my own personal case, you know,
Speaker:we, my lawyer wrote back to them and said, look, what we said is absolutely true. If you want
Speaker:to move ahead, go ahead. And we haven't heard back from them. But this is not about me.
Speaker:This has been happening to thousands of activists across our country, across North America.
Speaker:And what was really telling just a few weeks ago, the New York Times came out with an article
Speaker:that clearly walked us through that this is a systemic issue. That the Heritage Foundation
Speaker:has been partnering with a number of very large influential political organizations to make
Speaker:sure that they silence any kind of Palestinian solidarity. So this is systemic and it really
Speaker:is another reason why unions need to start stepping up and protecting free speech. This
Speaker:is a free speech issue. We live in Canada. We have the right to and to speak against a foreign
Speaker:state that is breaking international law. That is the Canadian way. So it's, but in what
Speaker:I've observed in the Toronto Disque School Board is an absolute silencing. of teachers whenever
Speaker:they try to show love to Palestinian children. And I get it, but I think that that's where,
Speaker:you know, we do have to be principled. We do have to show courage. Anyway, I'm interested
Speaker:in hearing what Sheila and Michelle and Laura might have to say on this. I contacted the
Speaker:Human Rights Department in the board. and I because I was concerned for my safety and
Speaker:and I wanted support like am I going to get support from my employer if I wear a Palestinian
Speaker:flag pin and a watermelon pin like I can't even believe I have to ask them but I do you know
Speaker:and they said the lawyer said um yes of course you can and wear that as long as it's not
Speaker:uh done maliciously. What does that even mean? What does that mean? Yeah exactly. And I was
Speaker:like, are you kidding me? Like that statement is like unbelievable. And then he said, also
Speaker:he warned me, he said, please be careful what you post on social media. What's that mean?
Speaker:Exactly. I, well, I, you know, I didn't listen to him. I don't listen to him. I have actually
Speaker:posted every single day on Facebook. I don't know how many, 800 days now on Palestine,
Speaker:every single day. I do not know why the board has not gone after me. The only thing I can
Speaker:think of is I am Palestinian. That's the only thing that's saving me. Otherwise, the board
Speaker:could have, they could have. You're daring them. I am. I was really daring them on LinkedIn.
Speaker:I use my full name on LinkedIn. You know, I've had the director of education look at my,
Speaker:some of my statements that I've made and I can't believe I haven't been. reprimanded. The only
Speaker:thing it must be because I'm Palestinian. That would look really bad, it? It usually doesn't
Speaker:have an advantage. I mean, like, soak it up, I guess. But can I ask a clarifying question?
Speaker:You folks both have referred to your employer. Do you mean the boards or the province? Toronto
Speaker:District School Board. Sorry Sheila. I'm even afraid to say the Toronto District School
Speaker:Board. That's how I'm afraid I am. I'll say it. It's not only the Toronto District School
Speaker:Board. It's other school boards too. Halton, York Region, Durham, and a lot of it comes
Speaker:from Doug Ford, right? Because you saw what Doug Ford, how Doug Ford and his racist commentary
Speaker:towards, you know, Palestinian children. I don't get how, you see, we're school teachers. We
Speaker:know how to love our Israeli, our Jewish, our Palestinian, and our Muslim children. Like
Speaker:that's what we do every day in our classroom. We have children from every, every part of
Speaker:the globe and we bring them into our classroom. We teach them, we give them a sense of belonging.
Speaker:We help them to like feel loved and feel safe. That's what we should be getting from our
Speaker:premier. That's what we should be getting from our prime minister. And I think that that's
Speaker:what's missing. And then of course, there's the orange guy down south. I just wanted to
Speaker:add that, I mean, I've been doing, I've been involved in activist equity justice work for
Speaker:my whole career for over 20 years. And I feel like on every issue, this is sort of echoing
Speaker:something that Laura said earlier, on every issue, there's been kind of a unity of people
Speaker:who are progressive, who share values, who see things a certain way, you whether it's
Speaker:pushing for all gender washrooms or whether it's recognizing diversity. It has felt pretty
Speaker:much like people were all together. And I feel like this is the first time that I have seen
Speaker:that there is a that there's a muddying of the waters where it's, the people with power, are
Speaker:presenting this issue as Jews versus Palestinians without recognizing the underlying patriarchy
Speaker:and colonialism that has, and white supremacy that has created these two groups as marginalized
Speaker:groups in the first place. And it has created this rights conflict, this, I'm using air quotes
Speaker:anyway, this idea of a rights conflict, which is that anything that advances one group,
Speaker:automatically disadvantages the other group. Consequently, people are really, really afraid
Speaker:of being smeared as anti-Semitic. So there's this concern that if you speak out about Palestinian
Speaker:rights or about genocide or Gaza, that you are inherently being critical of Jews and being
Speaker:anti-Semitic. And this is not an accident. This conflation of anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism
Speaker:or anti-Israel sentiments has been manufactured. And so now, if as a school teacher, I have
Speaker:a student who wants to talk about their experience in the Nakba, I feel like, oh, wait a minute,
Speaker:you can't say that, that's anti-Semitic, which is false. As Nigel said, criticism of a country
Speaker:is fine. Our Ontario Human Rights Code is extremely clear that that is not. it's not
Speaker:problematic unless I say all Jews are represented by this state and this state is doing bad things.
Speaker:That's not okay. But if I'm saying I disagree with the policies of this country or that country,
Speaker:that's not anti-Semitic. And I think the main problem is because this conflation has been
Speaker:so effective, people don't know what is okay to say and what is not okay to say. So that's
Speaker:why in response to your original question, why are people scared? People are scared because
Speaker:they are worried that if they say something, they will be portrayed as anti-Semitic and
Speaker:that's like the worst whatever. Anyway, thank you. On that point, I have been called anti-Semitic
Speaker:and it's almost meaningless now. Like I think I find it's being used so often that to me
Speaker:it the impact of it, the gravitas of it is not there anymore. For me personally, it's been
Speaker:hard because you know, when I talk to other people who I've been organizing with, we worry
Speaker:about, you know, a lot of us have been quietly doing a lot of equity work, not around, not
Speaker:just around Palestinian racism, but around black racism, um, affirming Muslim identities,
Speaker:like a whole lot of other stuff that we're worried that, you know, if, if someone tries to stop
Speaker:my work or if someone tells me or if someone accuses me of being anti-Semitic, I could like,
Speaker:I could be sacrificing the other work that I'm doing. Like it could really impact the groups
Speaker:that I'm in. It could bring attention to others and I have to be so careful of that. It feels
Speaker:like it's higher stakes. And for someone like me, like I'm super sensitive. So if someone
Speaker:is telling me you're not making me feel safe, like I start doubting myself, right? If there's
Speaker:parents, if there's certain groups of people saying like, I no longer feel safe at school,
Speaker:like that. really like that scares me, that makes me worried, like I'm worried that I'm
Speaker:doing the wrong thing or that I'm hurting someone's feelings. And then all of those things just
Speaker:make it like Michelle said, like, there's all these conflations that are happening and then
Speaker:so many layers. On top of the equity work, I mean, your teachers, Nigel just explained
Speaker:how much how the passion behind teaching and that I think most people think of when they
Speaker:think of teachers and we've seen teachers removed from their positions, whether it be temporary
Speaker:or not, right? Like actual, not just called into a meeting, but taken from the work that
Speaker:they love, just as you described. I wonder, at the conflation, I think the audience understands,
Speaker:right? We've talked a lot about why it's not anti-Semitic to support a free Palestine, but
Speaker:the, some of the examples that you give, the delegations that were collected and, lies
Speaker:and categorized. Some of them were kind of not expected. I mean, in this atmosphere and
Speaker:who we're talking to, the audience is likely going to expect that. But you talked about
Speaker:the isolation and alienation is another category that you folks use. To me, that was a little
Speaker:less obvious. Can you explain the examples that you're finding within the boards where,
Speaker:you know, Just for the audience, maybe they're not going to read the report. You should.
Speaker:you know, folks are told they can't wear Palestinian colors or pins or their work is extra scrutinized.
Speaker:You know, one example was, I think, some sort of art presentation and they're like needed
Speaker:to get everything approved only because it was talking about Palestine. So like the silencing,
Speaker:we can see reprisals you've talked about weaponizing anti-Semitism. But again, going back to the
Speaker:What is the alienation and the isolation look like in this respect? Well, for me, it's
Speaker:the silence. I called it the silence in the hallways. I didn't see any bake sales for Palestine
Speaker:in the schools. But previous years, I saw lots of bake sales for Ukraine. I saw the Ukraine
Speaker:flag being flown in front of one of the schools I was at. But when it comes to Palestine,
Speaker:there's nothing. nothing, at least in the schools that I've been at. Some people call me brave
Speaker:and I always say to myself, well, I trick my brain into thinking I'm from Ukraine. If they
Speaker:can speak up, then I can speak up. There should be no reason why I can't speak up because I'm
Speaker:Palestinian. So I just pretend that the world accepts me and then that's how I speak up
Speaker:and use my voice as much as I can. That's really sad. I know. It's very sad. that reminds me
Speaker:of like, you know, I've heard from when we were analyzing the data, the alienation, the
Speaker:way we kind of looked at all of the incidents and then we put them into these categories.
Speaker:And sometimes incidents went across several categories. And in that situation, we checked
Speaker:every category. when you, so the alienation isolation, is often part of like other things
Speaker:that are happening, including the silencing. But that reminds like I've had a Palestinian
Speaker:teacher and Palestinian families just say like, they don't feel seen. don't feel like they
Speaker:don't see anything in the classroom or in the school that reflects them. And it really gives
Speaker:them like Palestinian teachers and families and students like the sense that we don't care.
Speaker:The first time I met with Toronto-Palestinian families, I was bawling because the stories
Speaker:are so sad and you realize like, I'm a teacher in one of your kids' schools. Like your kids
Speaker:are my kids. I can't believe that they feel so alone and isolated that they don't have
Speaker:a teacher even that they feel safe talking to about what's going on. So in this atmosphere
Speaker:that you're all describing, You are challenging the boards to do better. You're presenting
Speaker:this to them. Some of you have described being delegates and speaking to the boards. How
Speaker:is it going? What has the response been like? Because I imagine, well, not that I'm letting
Speaker:anybody off the hook, but the same pressures and alienation and reprisals don't just exist
Speaker:for teachers, right? But some trustees are likely feeling it and decision makers, how
Speaker:are they responding when you are kind of doubly presenting these delegations? Because they
Speaker:sat through many of these delegations, not in other boards, right? But they were subjected
Speaker:to these experiences that they surely know aren't unique. And they didn't really respond all
Speaker:that well. You folks list a couple of boards that responded in better ways than others,
Speaker:largely that was Hamilton Wentworth and it was student trustee driven. Shout out to the
Speaker:students. otherwise, what is the mood been like from the board and the response when you
Speaker:press them further with this? Primarily my engagement with the board has been in two ways. One is
Speaker:I'm a member of Toronto Jewish Families, which is in coalition with Toronto Palestinian Families,
Speaker:which was on were together on your show previously. And we formed many, like quite a few years
Speaker:ago, prior to October 7th. And we were concerned about these issues of erasure of Palestinian
Speaker:voice and identity in the board. I don't remember the exact dates, but we did request a meeting
Speaker:with the executive superintendents and we met with them and People were very receptive
Speaker:and they said all kinds of nice things, but then there was no action taken. So they listened,
Speaker:they gave us time, we had a Zoom. They listened and seemed to want to work with us, but then
Speaker:it didn't go anywhere. There was no change in policy, there was no response. We tried to
Speaker:engage further and there was nothing. So that was very frustrating. And there have been
Speaker:some kinds of ongoing engagements over time, but nothing has really led to any concrete
Speaker:changes. That being said, I want to just point out some significant successes that have occurred
Speaker:as a result of this basically silencing or, I don't know, consulting to death or whatever
Speaker:you call it that, you know, they would listen but then not do anything. We have been, members
Speaker:of our group, of our broader coalition have been presenting delegations to board meetings
Speaker:on various topics over the last couple of years when we felt like there was an opportunity
Speaker:to use our personal stories, our positions to push the board on these issues. And mainly
Speaker:our concern was that what the board was doing was in conflict with their own stated human
Speaker:rights policies or their own stated equity policies. And one was last June, June 2024,
Speaker:as a response to delegations, the board did agree to add anti-Palestinian racism to its
Speaker:equity policy. The Toronto District School Board agreed to add anti-Palestinian racism as a
Speaker:concern and as something that would be covered by its anti-hate. anti-racism strategy. So
Speaker:that was a big success. Again, though, it was on paper. We didn't see any actual action
Speaker:taken. But that was, I think, a good first step. And then more recently, in fact, just this
Speaker:past week, there was also another big success. There was an event that took place last fall
Speaker:with Grassy Narrows to advocate for clean water for the Grassy Narrows community. some people
Speaker:who are making connections between Palestine and anti-Indigenous racism in Canada and Turtle
Speaker:Island. And after that, there was an investigation requested by parents who were upset that their
Speaker:children might have seen some Palestinian solidarity. And the result of the report was that there
Speaker:was a human rights level of erasure happening at the Toronto District School Board. Not the
Speaker:result they wanted from those claims, In fact, it was the opposite because the people who
Speaker:wanted the report wanted their finding to say, no, this was harmful for our students
Speaker:to be exposed to the Palestinian solidarity. Anyway, one of the recommendations of this
Speaker:report was that the Toronto District School Board executive team should receive training
Speaker:in anti-Palestinian racism and anti-Semitism. and that that should be developed by the ministry
Speaker:and delivered to the board. That was developed. And in fact, the inspector said, yeah, but
Speaker:sometimes trainings are requested and then nothing happens. But then the follow-up, which was
Speaker:really great, was one of the trustees, Alexis Dawson, put forward a motion to say, we clearly
Speaker:have a problem of anti-Palestinian racism in the Toronto District School Board, and we request
Speaker:that the ministry develop and deliver these trainings as per this investigators report.
Speaker:And so that was huge. And it was based and the proof that she used to say, look, we have
Speaker:anti-Palestinian racism in the board was all of these delegations that have happened over
Speaker:the last year and a half where parents and teachers and students have been saying, this is my experience,
Speaker:this is what has happened to me. And it was just, you we thought, we're like, is anyone
Speaker:listening? Is anyone paying attention? And the fact that not only did this motion pass, but
Speaker:it passed strongly, 15 to five trustees voted in favor. And that's really a testament to
Speaker:all those people who have delegated and the hard work that Alexis put in, in working with
Speaker:fellow trustees to see this is a problem. And look, here's a proposed solution. We need to...
Speaker:we need to follow up on this. So I think that that was really a huge success. It also speaks
Speaker:to the power of delegations because I know there's a lot of people out there very, very frustrated,
Speaker:not even just when we're talking about this particular issue where you have listed so many
Speaker:delegations and then almost a complete lack of response from the people listening to them.
Speaker:And we've like we've seen this in Toronto City Council. The bubble zone laws are the most
Speaker:recent example where it's just overwhelming evidence to spur politicians to do the right
Speaker:thing. But we're seeing organizations like yourself having to do that whole extra legwork, but
Speaker:adding more value to these delegations, getting them more airtime, more exposure, and gathering
Speaker:them as the necessary documents, evidence, right? So that for all sorts of reasons, you've given
Speaker:many examples now of how these delegations have been used because there's not a lot of avenues
Speaker:for people to be heard, right? These situations, board meetings, council meetings, regional
Speaker:meetings are the very few opportunities where the public can be on record, right? Like
Speaker:don't think you would have been able to gather testimonials and hit. carry the same weight
Speaker:as if they were kind of public delegations. How do you still do a lot of work in generating
Speaker:delegations and are you finding it easier to convince people not just of its value to like
Speaker:because some people are nervous right you're asking them to share their personal experience
Speaker:publicly front-facing you know vulnerable but Also under this atmosphere that you've described
Speaker:that exists outside the school board too, right? Folks like Benai Brith are not just watching
Speaker:teachers, right? But they are watching these delegations and taking notes and doxing people
Speaker:and whatnot. So is that work in delegating and getting people to take their story forward?
Speaker:Is that becoming easier to do? we making space for that? I think we do make space for that.
Speaker:think every time there's a board meeting, there's a group of us that are like, okay, delegations
Speaker:are happening and we try to rally people. There's a lot of people who are, I think every time
Speaker:there might be like a few new people and there's a lot of people that are just like, I've never
Speaker:done this before. How do I do this? It's been like helping people fill forms, reading through
Speaker:delegations and like offering that support, making sure people aren't going alone. It's
Speaker:quite organized. think TPF and TJF have like really gotten the community to come out
Speaker:and like have made it easy and accessible for community to participate and empowering the
Speaker:community that they have a voice and that they could use it. You know, when we were analyzing
Speaker:the delegations, and I don't know if anyone here realizes this, but when we were analyzing
Speaker:the delegations, We only analyzed our own delegations. We analyzed ally delegations. We didn't analyze
Speaker:the other sides' delegations. So what you're seeing are like an under-reported amount of
Speaker:all of these, you know, erasure and silencing. Like those are firsthand accounts. You know,
Speaker:if we did this again, like if we included all of the delegations, like, cause some of the...
Speaker:antagonistic delegations have definitely, you been very, very harmful to families and to
Speaker:people who are kind of like listening and they definitely have examples of erasure, alienation,
Speaker:racism in them. can understand why you wouldn't want to regurgitate some of the delegations
Speaker:that were just, yeah, perpetuating the same anti-Palestinian racism that you're trying,
Speaker:although they do provide evidence, like you see Do you see what our students are hearing?
Speaker:Do you see what our teachers are exposed to? Palestinian families have to like listen to
Speaker:them. But yeah, there's voices that we really need to lift up. They get enough of a platform
Speaker:already. And I want to talk about that too, Michelle, because the muddying of the waters,
Speaker:like you say, in part, it's strictly anti-Palestinian racism, and that has all kinds of roots and
Speaker:purposes. that we can get into, but a lot of it is just strictly driven by this ill-defined
Speaker:anti-Semitism. Not even ill-defined is not the right way to describe it, where it's been weaponized.
Speaker:That's the words that you folks use in the report, and justly so. That must be extremely
Speaker:frustrating for somebody who has already been doing work in trying to combat anti-Semitism.
Speaker:And then, you know, no shade to Sheila because we know exactly, I saw you nodding and you
Speaker:knew exactly what she meant when she's like, when people call me anti-Semitic, it almost
Speaker:means nothing anymore. That is incredibly frustrating, I imagine, but there are reasons why these
Speaker:attitudes are permeating throughout the school boards, not just, you know, the same thing
Speaker:we're all experiencing, you know, the media and whatnot, but there are organizations that
Speaker:have teamed up with the board. that perpetuate this problem, right? So they're almost working
Speaker:directly against your work, but they are given a lot more credentials or credence rather
Speaker:when it comes to speaking to the board and dealing with the Ministry of Education, right? Like
Speaker:they, you folks have to really wave your hands and do all kinds of work and like listen to
Speaker:us, but these folks have kind of easy access to decision makers. What's it been like trying
Speaker:to undo some of that at the board level? Well, one of our platforms in Toronto Jewish Families
Speaker:is to end partnerships with harmful organizations. that's definitely been something that we've
Speaker:been working on. think you're totally right that there are these large, well-funded organizations
Speaker:that, and I think one of the... most dangerous things about these organizations is that they
Speaker:claim to represent all Jews. And then they can say, oh yes, all Jews believe this and
Speaker:all Jews believe that. And then that's, I mean, that's obviously erasing the identities of
Speaker:Jews who are critical of their work, but also having all of these other harmful consequences.
Speaker:So that is definitely something that we've been working on. And the results in the Toronto
Speaker:District School Board is that the board said that they're coming up with a process to reevaluate
Speaker:their partnerships, but that was over a year ago, so I'm not sure where that stands. And
Speaker:they seem to continue to work in alliance between the board and some of these organizations.
Speaker:And some of these organizations are funded by the Ontario government, by the provincial government,
Speaker:at the tune of $150,000. I was quite shocked to learn that. So they have a lot of money
Speaker:and power behind them. That's right. They just recently increased the funding to some of these
Speaker:organizations, right? It wasn't all that long ago that they dedicated more funds in trying
Speaker:to target anti-Semitism. There's a part in your report where it acknowledges that this is a
Speaker:provincial responsibility, but a lot of the work that you're doing is clearly at the board
Speaker:level. I mean, they're your employers. I get that. Are we expecting the province to do anything
Speaker:as well? Are you working there? I know you mentioned that the TDSB has now like officially put in
Speaker:a request for the ministry to, you know, define and come up with a program of sorts for anti-Palestinian
Speaker:racism training. Have they responded? mean, I think the process is slow, even at the board
Speaker:level, like when anti-Palestinian racism was put on the anti-hate strategy, it had like
Speaker:a timeline of like 2025, 2026. And we're talking like next school year and things keep on getting
Speaker:pushed back and consultations get pushed back. And it's like this constant putting pressure
Speaker:on the board of like when, when, and then having, you know, every little win gets kind of antagonized.
Speaker:afterwards, like the grassy narrows investigation was, you know, publicized as like, that's not
Speaker:the right, that's not the right answer. But I think there's a lot of power. And maybe Nigel
Speaker:could speak to this like in, in, in labor movements, right? I think a lot of this, a lot of work
Speaker:can be done through our unions. And that's like another avenue of trying to get that get to
Speaker:that unity. Laura, I mean, I agree with you that it's the responsibility actually of trade
Speaker:unions and certainly of school teacher unions and education unions to be fighting for and
Speaker:support of international law. think, you know, we right now, even within our own union or
Speaker:this union, we're having a struggle, right? Like for that identity. While I know that
Speaker:there are many activists and many school teachers who like are, you know, don't agree with the
Speaker:genocide that we see happening right in real time. They have been terrified to say anything
Speaker:out loud, but yet we have other school teachers who are denying this genocide that is happening.
Speaker:And it seems that their voices are the ones that are so loud and that people are more afraid
Speaker:of. it really is going to... Like we're just, we're at a watershed moment in our country,
Speaker:you know, and I think our union is reflective of the general society, right? Where are
Speaker:people going to land? And, you know, your heart knows that it's wrong and that we as school
Speaker:teachers, we can love all children regardless of what their background is. But I don't know,
Speaker:like as I stand here with you in this meeting right at this moment, I am extremely concerned
Speaker:whether or not we'll have the majority of our members that are going to have the courage
Speaker:to stand on the right side of history. It is a story that's being written. Well, I just
Speaker:thinking about I've seen Nigel being personally attacked on Facebook. Right, Nigel? Like during
Speaker:some of the discussions by one particular teacher has messaged him over 100 times. And
Speaker:then I stepped in. and supported Nigel. And I think I made a difference in that conversation.
Speaker:I was scared, but I couldn't just let that happen. So, yeah. It was very brave of you
Speaker:and thank you. In response also to the question about the provincial level, I think another,
Speaker:we've seen several courageous MPPs take a stand on this issue and they had consequences for
Speaker:their solidarity. And I think the same challenges that we face in our board are a microcosm of
Speaker:what is happening provincially and also obviously beyond that people in leadership positions
Speaker:at the provincial level are worried about being smeared as anti-Semitic as well. I'm slightly
Speaker:frustrated at hearing unionized workers having to do all of this kind of unofficially.
Speaker:We say like, Labour for Palestine, for folks who didn't hear that episode, I will link that
Speaker:as well as with the Toronto families, Jewish and Palestinian families. But it's more rank
Speaker:and file. Like it's not, you use a big L, but when it comes to union leadership or the official
Speaker:positions of the education unions, other unions are, you know, having the same issues, but
Speaker:we're here talking about education right now. There doesn't seem to be a lot of leadership
Speaker:when it comes to this. it's same, same microcosm. saw Fred Hahn get completely blasted and isolated
Speaker:and everyone knows there's, I will link the episode on that as well in case if you were
Speaker:like, what are you talking about? I don't know, maybe they're from Saskatchewan or something,
Speaker:but they, don't know what we're talking about. you know, I think they can imagine that the
Speaker:same, but I think we expect more of the folks that are voted to lead, right? So I can understand
Speaker:a teacher, especially if they don't feel like they're being backed up. When it comes to dealing
Speaker:with the boards, are you folks feeling supported by your union? I bet so tricky. Yeah, I bet.
Speaker:My union is open to learning about my background and history, which I appreciate, but I don't
Speaker:really see any action, to be honest. And for me, like I see Nigel and like seeing Nigel
Speaker:helps me be more brave. And I'm lucky that he has this position that I'm like, yes, my friend
Speaker:is saying this. feel okay saying this too. But I do wish it was like not just Nigel and
Speaker:it was like all of ETT saying it so that it was like, I would feel more protected. But
Speaker:I also know like from the other side, is that there's also the other side asking Nigel to
Speaker:protect them. Like there's like, you know, the union has to protect everybody. And like,
Speaker:because they have to protect everybody, it makes me a little worried, right? It makes me mad
Speaker:sometimes. like, why do you guys have to protect racists? Like, I don't understand. Like, can't
Speaker:we just fire them? And that's where I think union stuff gets sticky, I don't know. I made
Speaker:a human rights complaint against a fellow teacher, but it was an online racist comment she made
Speaker:to me. But my union was just all, they just didn't know what to do with it. They didn't
Speaker:know how to handle it. I'm in a different union than Nigel and Laura. I'm in the occasional
Speaker:teachers union, elementary occasional teachers union. And my union reps didn't know what
Speaker:to do. They didn't know what to do with it. but I did fill out a human rights complaint
Speaker:form, but nothing's happened. Nothing has come to it. Not because they don't know how to handle
Speaker:a human rights complaint, but because of the muddied water. And I do feel fortunate, Nigel.
Speaker:Like people have told me like, oh, you're so lucky you're ETT. You got Nigel. Like you have
Speaker:like these strong voices. So I am thankful for that. Like there are way, I could be in a way
Speaker:less protected spot. mean, don't forget unions are, we're a democratic organization. So union
Speaker:leaders are making a calculation and no different from what these MPs and MPPs make, right? And
Speaker:so do I, you know, the easiest thing for the union leader to do is to like not say anything
Speaker:at all. You're not. Right. then, well, I mean, I think, I think there are, there are leaders.
Speaker:I mean, there are people in these positions. They know that they have to take a principled
Speaker:position, right? I mean, that's what it really comes down to. And I think, you know, those
Speaker:are the kind of people that I wanna see leading our country. Those are the kind of people that
Speaker:I would love to see leading our school board. Those are the kind of people that I wanna
Speaker:see at the front of our classrooms, right? People that are grounded in social injustice for
Speaker:all people, not just for a few. I just wanted to add too, that I think that there are different
Speaker:levels of our union leadership, right? So. our local, our Union Local Elementary Teachers
Speaker:of Toronto, I think has done an exceptional job of supporting teachers, supporting teachers
Speaker:in all kinds of circumstances. And I know that when I've had, I've had a few situations where
Speaker:I was targeted online or things have been a little difficult and I know, and I've had
Speaker:direct support from from Nigel, from Elementary Teachers of Toronto, and I felt, I did feel
Speaker:absolutely supported. That being said, I think there are larger Provincial Union at Elementary
Speaker:Teachers Federation of Ontario has been, has not been vocal on this. And in fact, I've
Speaker:been doing some work in developing some resources for them on antisemitism. And I understand
Speaker:that their position is that they need to be careful because at the end of the day, they
Speaker:don't want to put teachers in a situation where they might be at risk from their respective
Speaker:employers. And so they have to kind of follow the lead of the boards, whereas I think the
Speaker:Elementary Teachers of Toronto has taken on that leadership position. So I think it depends
Speaker:on the level that we're talking. No wonder that answer was tricky. Nigel. didn't forget Nigel
Speaker:was here. That's okay. No, everyone answered that so not diplomatically, but you your experience
Speaker:is not that of, you know, everybody in the various school boards across. How many school boards
Speaker:do we have in Ontario? You must know. I there's like 80, 81 or. What? Yeah, there's a lot of
Speaker:them. That's so much work because I'm thinking, you know, some of these trustees. We gotta
Speaker:replace them. You need motions that are obviously brought forward and it's not good enough to
Speaker:just have some trustees that are like willing to take a meeting with you and listen with
Speaker:a sympathetic ear and maybe give a donation anonymously or, you know, maybe locals are
Speaker:doing that too. It's like we need folks up there that are going to be so vocal and have got,
Speaker:you know, nothing to lose in that regard or don't, you know, they understand that it's
Speaker:worth it. Do you ever talk about intervening in these elections, mean, not manipulation,
Speaker:but just encouraging more folks to look at school board elections, trustee elections
Speaker:that happen at the same time as our municipal elections, in case people don't know, because
Speaker:it's not much we talk about, right? We want to know who the mayor is going to be, maybe
Speaker:counselor, I mean, in the rural area, nobody even votes for that. It's like really low engagement,
Speaker:but wow, the impact of who sits on those boards is immense, right? Especially when you can't
Speaker:trust the ministry to do anything or you least need advocates against the ministry, which
Speaker:you shouldn't, but let's be real, right? So is that ever part of your discussion or? mean,
Speaker:for the, no, it's not. I mean, we go through an endorsement process at all, you know. for
Speaker:our local MPPs and trustees that are the main decision makers. So we actually actively
Speaker:try to support what we feel are progressive trustees and MPPs. There has been a complete
Speaker:trend from the right to run candidates that are supportive of a hard right-wing agenda,
Speaker:both fiscally and socially conservative. And so you're seeing that happen in many school
Speaker:boards. it's something that, like I said, I mean, it is part of the whole thing that's
Speaker:happening with this hard shift that we see in the right. It's, know, like we're actually,
Speaker:where fascism is something that's actually real, like it could happen tomorrow. Like
Speaker:we just missed it here in Canada. Like I'm raising a nine-year-old. And I can't believe
Speaker:that I'm so terrified about the world that he's going to inhabit because, you know, like we're
Speaker:seeing fascism in real time happening around the globe. Yeah, we did see the right mobilize
Speaker:around the boards a little bit stronger and sooner than I think the broader kind of public
Speaker:understood the value of that move or the the long-term implications that perhaps they didn't
Speaker:give a shit about trans kids in school, you know, enough to mobilize against that issue.
Speaker:But it's just one thing after another where people are coming in here and explaining, you
Speaker:know, the impacts that school boards have in Ontario. I know it's not the same in every
Speaker:province. but is there anything you folks would like to share about either the report process
Speaker:or your own experience before we sign off? As a Jewish educator in the Toronto District School
Speaker:Board, I'm a member of the Jewish Heritage Committee, which purports to represent Jewish staff
Speaker:broadly. And I guess this was a response to your question about the isolation or how
Speaker:we feel responded to by the board. So I just wanted to raise this concern, which is that
Speaker:really, the Jewish Heritage Committee should represent Jewish staff in their diversity.
Speaker:unfortunately, what we continue to see is that the Jewish Heritage Committee represents Jewish
Speaker:staff as being monolithic, as holding one position on Israel, and it's very frustrating as
Speaker:a Jewish educator to see this group so harmfully misrepresent me and my perspective. And I
Speaker:think the effect is that it makes many people feel unsafe because there have been posts
Speaker:online about solidarity with Israel and on behalf of the Jewish Heritage Committee and
Speaker:it feels very frustrating. I think the union is one of the ways that our voice is represented
Speaker:but the heritage committee is heritage committees are another and so to feel so ignored and silenced
Speaker:by our Jewish heritage committee is just an example of the lack of acknowledgement of diversity
Speaker:within at least within that portion of the Toronto District School Board. the delegations were
Speaker:quite diverse and you reported that it you know of those who identified what their you know
Speaker:religion or culture was there there was an equal number of palestinians people who identified
Speaker:as Palestinian as there was Jewish speaking to anti-Palestinian racism. Yes, there are
Speaker:many Jewish opinions on both sides or on multiple sides. the perspective of the Jewish Heritage
Speaker:Committee and the Jewish representation in the higher levels of the board is that we are a
Speaker:fringe minority, which we've heard in many different contexts, but that our position is so is ignorable
Speaker:because there are so few of us. So it's very, it's truly ironic that we are represented
Speaker:in the delegation, not as a fringe minority, but that's how we're characterized. Something
Speaker:that I've been struggling with is the fact that the board doesn't recognize the Nakba
Speaker:Day. And I just feel like It's the least they could do. At least give us one day. One day.
Speaker:They have all these other special interest days. have, you know, the Greek month. They have
Speaker:Black History month. Like, can they not just give us one day? And I know I called the Equity
Speaker:Department and they said there's a moratorium on special days. And I just feel we're always,
Speaker:you know, I feel like we're always coming against a brick wall. And I just, I hope that in the
Speaker:near future that we can have the one day, the Nakba Day. And a friend of mine is a social
Speaker:worker at a school, in a middle school, and she asked the principal if she could talk about
Speaker:Nakba Day, and the principal said, no, I'm not gonna allow you to talk about it. And I thought,
Speaker:ooh, that's interesting. Isn't the board pride themselves on inclusion? But you know, I guess
Speaker:it's inclusion for some and not for everyone. They're so bold when it comes to that kind
Speaker:of exclusion, right? Like usually people try to couch their racism or their discrimination
Speaker:in like bureaucratic things, you know, like no new holidays. So come on, give me that,
Speaker:right? Other than just being like, nope, sorry, you can't talk about that. We reserve the right
Speaker:to talk about one genocide and one genocide only. How enraging too in Toronto for them
Speaker:to mark Israeli Independence Day. rather than neck by day, the battles we have in
Speaker:front of us. But Laura and Nigel, any parting gifts of wisdom or things you didn't get to
Speaker:say while we were talking? For me, it's the Martin Luther King's quote around, know,
Speaker:my emancipation is connected to your emancipation. Like, you know, none of us are free until we're
Speaker:all free. I think it's, you know, My activism is important to me because it's about humanity
Speaker:and about human being human beings. So there's nothing special. It's just about being a human
Speaker:being. And I'm really grateful to have been able to share space with all of you here today
Speaker:and just this great program. Really, thank you very much. There's not a lot of places
Speaker:where voices like ours can be heard and feel comfortable and be respected like this. So
Speaker:thank you so much. I mean, the feelings mutual when you folks come on here and talk about
Speaker:the work that you do and the risks that you all take and it's, you don't just uplift
Speaker:me, I'm privy to it, but you know, there's folks listening that each get a little bit more courageous,
Speaker:just the way Laura described watching you work, Nigel. So the impact, I can, if I can just
Speaker:amplify some of this a little bit, then that's like the least I feel like I can do sometimes,
Speaker:right? To make me feel like I'm doing. my job, my role in all of this. But Laura, you get
Speaker:last laugh or not, you You know, what's been surprising for me, the most surprising for
Speaker:me, disappointingly, is that, you know, you've heard, we've heard this, Palestinian issue
Speaker:being the litmus test of our time kind of thing. And I didn't, and it's so real. Like, I wish
Speaker:it wasn't, it sounds so kind of like, cliche now. I'm it's so like, I'm surprised at how
Speaker:many people I've lost as allies, right? People who I really thought same equity mind as me,
Speaker:we've been working on these same projects, but on this one issue, like, we're not on the same
Speaker:page. And I think that tells me a lot about how serious people are about, you know, anti
Speaker:racism, and social justice and Yeah, like Sheila said, like, for everyone I've lost,
Speaker:I've gained a lot of people. There's been so much community and I think that's what carries
Speaker:us through. I can lose those people. Like, I've realized that. I'm like, I can lose people.
Speaker:I'm like, and the people I find in doing this work and following my conscience, I know is
Speaker:right and there's no regrets. It's like we all collectively went through this moment where,
Speaker:you know, sometimes it's on an individual level, something horrible happens to you and it's
Speaker:like whoever's there for you in those moments are your real friends. It's like so many of
Speaker:us went through, I know it didn't start on October 7th, but that day changed everything.
Speaker:Like even people who had been willing to talk about Palestine lost a lot of courage. But
Speaker:then we saw people who had never paid attention before. those people have been multiplied
Speaker:far greater than the comrades, so-called comrades that we had filtered, that were filtered for
Speaker:us. Can I just add one last thing just to echo what, sorry, what Nigel had said earlier? Just
Speaker:that I think that, I think what we're missing here by pitting people against each other is
Speaker:that at the very bottom, we are teaching children. And it is our duty to see the humanity in every
Speaker:student that comes into our class. And if we're saying this child is more valuable or more
Speaker:worthwhile or whatever, then we're losing, we've lost the thread. But really at the end of the
Speaker:day, how can we uplift the humanity of every child that walks into our class and allow them
Speaker:to fully be their own full self? That's our role. That's what we're hired for. And if
Speaker:we're not doing that, then I think we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing. Beautifully
Speaker:said. Well, I mean, I think you folks are doing what you're supposed to be doing. So I very
Speaker:much appreciate that. Labour for Palestine, education workers. You folks have been on the
Speaker:front lines more than once. We are often looking to education workers to fix a lot of our
Speaker:problems, don't we? That's because you've got the future in your hands. It's not my fault.
Speaker:A lot of pressure, a lot of pressure on you folks to do the right thing. And I'm very
Speaker:glad a lot of you have answered the call. I know that you're not representative of the
Speaker:whole. You have so many more comrades that we couldn't fit into the studio. But it's
Speaker:good to see that that work is being done and you're making progress, right? Even if it's
Speaker:baby steps. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for
Speaker:this opportunity. Yes. That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank
Speaker:you for joining us.
