Rabble Rants: Loblaws Makes a Killing / Scarborough Transit

[Jessa]: 00:00:03

Well, our friends at Loblaws are in the news again. They've released their second

[Jessa]: 00:00:09

quarter profits. We're looking at $508 million. The shareholders can divvy up amongst

[Jessa]: 00:00:18

themselves. Just to be clear, that is just in the second quarter alone. This is

[Jessa]: 00:00:25

like a 30, over a 30% increase from what they earned last year. And I don't think

[Jessa]: 00:00:31

I need to remind anybody of what groceries cost right now. Santiago, didn't you just go

[Jessa]: 00:00:37

grocery shopping?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:39

Yep, basic ingredients today cost me $90 and I still have no idea

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:47

what happened. What walked into the grocery store to just like

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:53

try and spend as little money as possible. And it seems that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:57

no matter how hard one tries, you cannot, you cannot spend. affordable

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:06

amount of money at the grocery store and I'm not even talking

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:09

about one of the more expensive groceries. I'm talking about

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:14

No Frills in Parkdale where it's supposed to be one of the cheaper

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:20

grocery stores.

[Jessa]: 00:01:22

You mean you're not boycotting La Blas?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:25

I mean, I don't know that I could boycott Loblaws if I wanted to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:29

not like well Maybe like Loblaws as in Loblaws the grocery store

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:33

but not like I still got to pick up my ADHD medication and my Anxiety

[Jessa]: 00:01:38

at Shoppers.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:38

medication as shoppers and the no frills is like so close to them,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:42

right? Like the closest grocery store would be far away and then it's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:47

like, okay. Well, it's still Not great. So

[Jessa]: 00:01:54

As I was doing my notes here and knowing the levels of food insecurity that exist, I'm

[Jessa]: 00:02:02

going through the articles to find the figures, you know, just to see how much

[Jessa]: 00:02:05

money they made. The numbers aren't really important, but the way almost all those

[Jessa]: 00:02:11

articles were framed was just awful. They gave no space at all to talking about

[Jessa]: 00:02:18

groceries or food security advocates. They spent most of that space allowing Loblaws

[Jessa]: 00:02:26

to defend these profits. To again say like they're not all from food, we have a really

[Jessa]: 00:02:31

diverse portfolio, manufacturers are still making us pay a lot of money for what

[Jessa]: 00:02:37

we need and it completely lost focus on the fact that this company is making record

[Jessa]: 00:02:47

profits off of starving Canadians. Right? Food bank usage is going through the

[Jessa]: 00:02:54

roof. They cannot keep up with demand at all. Meanwhile, they're rolling in the Benjamins

[Jessa]: 00:03:00

at the grocery store. This is maddening, maddening.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:06

Yeah, to say the least. And it's such an intersectional issue

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:12

too, because this plays into all the aspects of people's life.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:18

that anxiety affects everything, but also not having access to nutritious

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:25

food affects the way you think. It affects your ability to have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:30

energy throughout the day. I mean, this is really a case of capitalism

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:36

shooting itself in the foot once again in the name of short-term

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:39

profits, but it's so maddeningly like in a fit, not even in it,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:46

just absurd. It's just so completely absurd and It doesn't end

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:53

here either because we've seen inflation slowing down, but it has

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:58

had no effect on the grocery stores and people already can't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:02

afford. So it's like where is the natural stopping point for them

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:05

where they say enough? We've price gouged enough. The answer is nowhere

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:09

because we know that growth is the constant necessity. Otherwise,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:16

if they're not growing in profits, their shareholders won't be happy

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:20

and they'll make changes and price gauges even more and they'll

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:24

buy up everyone else and it's already all bought up by three people

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:28

so it's this is just another depressing part of living in late stage

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:34

capitalism i guess

[Jessa]: 00:04:37

but you got your grocery rebate, right? Don't worry, the federal liberals have come

[Jessa]: 00:04:42

in and saved the day. Of course, the NDP will take credit for it and we'll be fine.

[Jessa]: 00:04:47

That will cover not even my family's week of groceries. All of this kind of coming

[Jessa]: 00:04:55

together at the same time, we're getting reports that food bank use is just going to

[Jessa]: 00:05:00

go up even higher. And the focus that was on blah, in the House of Commons. It's

[Jessa]: 00:05:08

still appalling to me that we don't go, you know, we still have terms like greedflation

[Jessa]: 00:05:13

to describe this and not as you say, capitalism shooting itself in the foot, although

[Jessa]: 00:05:18

I'm not sure it is shooting itself in the foot. As I dug it. into the story and

[Jessa]: 00:05:23

was reading about Loblaws and alerted by our guest from this week, Bruno of the York

[Jessa]: 00:05:30

Southwest Intenet Union, when he kind of had that ominous line about Loblaws getting

[Jessa]: 00:05:37

into the housing game. I think at first I thought he was joking, but I dug into it

[Jessa]: 00:05:43

and yeah of course choice properties there. One of the largest you know called REITs.

[Jessa]: 00:05:53

I should insert here what that acronym is. It's like real estate investment trusts

[Jessa]: 00:05:59

or something like that. FEC.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:06:01

That's

[Jessa]: 00:06:01

Okay.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:06:01

exactly what it is.

[Jessa]: 00:06:04

All right. So they're the largest one of these things in Canada and most of their

[Jessa]: 00:06:09

stuff for now is of course my dog.

[Jessa]: 00:06:22

Oh, it's tasty!

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:06:24

uh... largest reit

[Jessa]: 00:06:28

Okay, so, you know, yeah, so they're the largest real estate investment trust in

[Jessa]: 00:06:35

Canada, which means they own a lot of properties. And they even say on their website

[Jessa]: 00:06:40

that they benefit from their relationship with Loblaws. It's essentially one in the same.

[Jessa]: 00:06:46

But it's the way they frame how their portfolio is based that really got me mad because

[Jessa]: 00:06:51

of how we talk about essential goods being controlled by profiteers. rupulous insatiable

[Jessa]: 00:06:59

profiteers. They boast about most of their portfolio being necessity-based businesses,

[Jessa]: 00:07:10

meaning things you need to survive. They house them all, you know? All those things,

[Jessa]: 00:07:16

pay leases to choice properties. And they're also getting into rental properties.

[Jessa]: 00:07:22

You look at their website, they've got plans for Toronto and a few other urban

[Jessa]: 00:07:25

centers. All of it looks very gentrifying. I can't imagine any of it's going to be affordable.

[Jessa]: 00:07:34

This is a bad development for me, you know, to start off getting really mad about

[Jessa]: 00:07:38

the groceries and then spiraling down to realize just how many essential goods are

[Jessa]: 00:07:46

controlled in this way and becoming out of reach.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:07:50

And I think one thing that's really absurd about this situation is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:07:56

that This, I feel like is a very familiar thing for a lot of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:02

people from third world countries, like this kind of relationship

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:05

to a single business or a single individual. What immediately comes

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:10

to mind is Mexico and someone like Carlos Lim, who, you know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:14

people say you can't go a day in Mexico without contributing to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:19

his fortune somehow. Usually people are aware of it, right? But

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:26

In Canada, we're so completely disconnected from how much of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:31

an oligarchy we live in. I mean, people are living in complete ignorance

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:37

about this. This is an advanced level of oligarchy. This is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:44

not... This takes a while to get to this point. And there are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:51

many warning signs before you get to this point, which shows that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:54

this has been an intentional decision that has been facilitated

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:58

over decades. And... It did. I... The thing is, I don't really know

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:09:09

where you go from there when it doesn't seem to matter how much

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:09:14

bad press Galen Weston or Loblaws gets.

[Jessa]: 00:09:19

Well, I think that's the thing because we go after the personality and not the system.

[Jessa]: 00:09:25

And then we also design policies that are going to be aimed at you at limiting CEO

[Jessa]: 00:09:31

salaries, which, you know, is great. And we could just likely get rid of CEOs, to

[Jessa]: 00:09:36

be honest. I've seen business structures. That's ridiculous. But we don't, right? As

[Jessa]: 00:09:45

you were describing that oligarchy, and I thought of it too, as I was seeing in

[Jessa]: 00:09:50

the many ways Loblaws has diversified its profits. Made me think of the movie Wall-E.

[Jessa]: 00:09:57

You know, that's where you know, the branding is everywhere. There's no doubt about

[Jessa]: 00:10:03

it. By and large, it owns everything. The banks,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:08

I can hear

[Jessa]: 00:10:08

the grocery

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:08

the jingle.

[Jessa]: 00:10:09

stores. I mean, was that not a cautionary tale for us? I mean, the planet ended up a

[Jessa]: 00:10:15

whole bunch of garbage with only rich folks being able to... orbit in space until

[Jessa]: 00:10:20

it's inhabitable again. But yeah, it didn't go well.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:29

Yeah, I feel like that's not even like I also immediately think

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:33

of the Lorax as another example. And I feel like, you know, all these

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:40

my generation, I guess we were kids. Well, when these movies

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:45

were come up and I do feel like it had an influence, but it

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:48

seems that. There's just the disconnect is connecting those stories

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:55

to the real life examples because. There's, we become so good

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:00

at blaming the wrong people for this. And the thing is, as you mentioned,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:06

it's that continuation of attempting to blame individuals as opposed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:10

to realizing that this is baked into the very system itself.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:14

This is how capitalism needs to function because there is a limited

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:17

amount of money that you can gouge from non-essential goods and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:22

services because eventually people will just stop spending money

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:26

on them because they're non-essential. And capitalism demands that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:32

constant growth, which means inevitably those corporations that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:38

are most successful at the moment and are no longer making money

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:41

from those non-essential goods and services will immediately start to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:45

attempt to privatize and profit as much as they can off of the things

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:49

we need. And that's just what Loblaws is doing here. It's nothing

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:52

special. There's nothing different about them. This is the way

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:55

that capitalism functions. This is inevitably how it will always out.

[Jessa]: 00:12:04

Yeah, no, we spend a lot of time here shitting on Loblaws, but you made the point

[Jessa]: 00:12:08

earlier before we started recording that, you know, they're not alone in this.

[Jessa]: 00:12:13

In the food game and in the real estate game. I think, you know, even the existence

[Jessa]: 00:12:20

of REITs, the treatment of land and shelter as investments and the rise of- these

[Jessa]: 00:12:31

institutions is so problematic, right, at a time where really we need to be decommodifying

[Jessa]: 00:12:38

housing, framing it as a human right. And meanwhile, there are the wealthiest amongst

[Jessa]: 00:12:46

us that are just gathering up properties, scooping them up, building them, turning their

[Jessa]: 00:12:52

profits into more profits, and all of it means an increased cost of living for

[Jessa]: 00:12:58

us. nothing of this is done with any kind of advancement in mind, which is what

[Jessa]: 00:13:03

people always go on about capitalism being the engine for innovation and making

[Jessa]: 00:13:12

our lives easier. When the fuck is that happening?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:15

And they also, they like to talk about choice, right? That capitalism

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:19

creates choice because of competition. It's like, what the fuck are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:22

you talking about? There's no competition whatsoever. Like, although

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:27

you go look at, so we're looking at grocery stores, but you start

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:31

looking at food brands, right? And there's like eight companies that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:34

are like every single brand that you would recognize when you go

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:38

to a grocery store. Eight companies own like everything. Like I

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:44

think of like Nestle and Kellogg and so I guess some of the big

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:48

ones, right? But they own everything. Right. And it's that illusion

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:53

of competition, that illusion of choice that is baked into the very

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:56

foundation of every single thing in capitalism. It's, I, it's that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:00

duopoly. It's that, you know, as long as we're debating between

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:04

who likes what you like better, Coke or Pepsi, you don't realize

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:07

that you're the, you're actually being played for a fool. into

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:11

making you think that you have a choice because you get to choose

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:15

between Coke and Pepsi.

[Jessa]: 00:14:17

Absolutely. And, like, don't get me wrong, those folks compete against each other

[Jessa]: 00:14:22

for our dollar, you know, in a really playful way in the marketing sphere. But do

[Jessa]: 00:14:28

not think for a second that they don't unite behind closed doors and set bread prices.

[Jessa]: 00:14:38

Or conspire with one another to pressure, you know, folks like Dream Un- Dream- I don't

[Jessa]: 00:14:47

want to get that wrong. Dream Unlimited, not to cave to a rent strike, right? We heard

[Jessa]: 00:14:52

that the landlord lobbyists were kind of united on that front, so.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:57

Lots of ruling class solidarity is what they have. They know that,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:03

they know who they are. They know that if they're competing against

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:09

each other and ripping each other apart, that they all stand to lose

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:12

from it.

[Jessa]: 00:15:13

Absolutely. They know they're in a class war. Too many of us do not. Um.

[Jessa]: 00:15:23

One thing that President's Choice, La Blas, hopefully, I say this, but I could

[Jessa]: 00:15:30

be wrong, don't have game in, is public transit. Did you like my segue?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:40

That works. I don't even know if it's true though, if they might.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:43

Hehehehe.

[Jessa]: 00:15:45

Well, I thought Bruno was joking and so now I don't know. I'm not even going to

[Jessa]: 00:15:48

look at that because I have enough things to be upset about. But, you know, I

[Jessa]: 00:15:53

grew up in Scarborough for most of my life and seeing the debacle that's been

[Jessa]: 00:16:02

surrounding the Scarborough RT. Can you help us get caught up to speed, Santiago?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:09

Well, essentially what happened was the Scarborough, I still

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:16

not sure if it's LRT or RT, but he said it's RT, so I'm gonna

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:20

go with that. One of the trains derailed, I believe it was, when

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:28

was that?

[Jessa]: 00:16:29

Oh yeah, that's a good call.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:33

I feel like I should know.

[Jessa]: 00:16:35

that article in the notes. Hold on.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:38

I'm just gonna say a few days ago, derailed a few days ago and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:42

five people were injured. Now, this line was already supposed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:48

to be shut down in the coming months. But it reminded me once

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:54

again of the absurd divestment in public transit that Scarborough

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:01

has experienced. I mean, we're talking about a borough of 600,000

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:06

people, which is bigger than most cities in North America. And

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:11

they have one of the most underserved public transit networks

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:16

that I have ever seen anywhere.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:23

when we were talking about the wait time increases on the TTC, the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:30

vast majority of the routes that we're seeing above five minute

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:33

wait time increases were bus routes in Scarborough. The way they

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:40

treat Scarborough when it comes to public transit is frankly,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:46

it's just malicious. I mean, this is Scarborough is a predominantly

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:52

visible minority community, working class community. It is not

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:57

a place of wealth, which is why it seems to be that it doesn't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:18:01

matter that it's 600,000 people. They will never get the service

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:18:07

they deserve.

[Jessa]: 00:18:09

I just want to give folks perhaps outside of Toronto a little bit of perspective. Scarborough

[Jessa]: 00:18:14

takes up the entire east end of the City of Toronto. It's massive. It goes north

[Jessa]: 00:18:20

to south the entire length of the city I suppose. And the Scarborough RT was light

[Jessa]: 00:18:29

rail above ground and it was the only way to really get to the subway system. Either

[Jessa]: 00:18:35

that or you're essentially taking an east west bus. all the way to Yonge Street,

[Jessa]: 00:18:40

which would take hours, does take hours. I've had to do that to Finch station many times.

[Jessa]: 00:18:46

So this is the only fast way to get to the subways, which essentially run right

[Jessa]: 00:18:52

down the middle of the city in the south end, for the most part. That's where

[Jessa]: 00:18:57

most folks are going. And now all of these people, you're talking about seven, over

[Jessa]: 00:19:02

17,000 people a day, weekday. are going to be shuttled on buses. And even though this

[Jessa]: 00:19:12

probably spells the very end of the RT. that was already scheduled. That was always

[Jessa]: 00:19:20

the only plan for at least seven plus years is to bus all of those people on shuttle

[Jessa]: 00:19:28

buses. You know, albeit Olivia has promised to build a dedicated bus lane, that's

[Jessa]: 00:19:35

17, over 17,000 people alone on this busway that the money is not even earmarked

[Jessa]: 00:19:44

for at this point. So in the meantime, those folks are pooched.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:19:52

and a reminder of how much worse it is with once again all the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:19:56

wait time increases on all the other bus routes in

[Jessa]: 00:19:59

that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:00

Scarborough.

[Jessa]: 00:20:00

already exist, right?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:01

Yeah, the ones

[Jessa]: 00:20:02

Yeah.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:02

that already exist are the ones that the city decided were the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:05

ones that would most make sense to increase their wait times even

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:10

though once again we knew that the light rail was scheduled to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:16

be decommissioned in the coming months. There was no real plan

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:22

to deal with this. And this goes beyond, I think that this is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:27

an issue that goes beyond car-centric design, in my opinion, because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:31

it's not like Scarborough is designed in a way that also makes driving

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:37

the most logical thing either. For me, like, this

[Jessa]: 00:20:42

There's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:42

is simply...

[Jessa]: 00:20:43

plenty of parking in Skirrmer, I'll tell you that. You don't have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:45

This...

[Jessa]: 00:20:45

to pay for it either.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:46

Yeah, no, this is simply this is simply the I don't even want

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:52

to say nor ignoring of a underserved community. This is like the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:57

active, active malice against an underserved community. This is beyond

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:02

indifference. And there's no real. There's no real urgency for

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:08

anybody, it seems, to talk about this. This wasn't a big issue

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:12

during the recent mayoral election, either of the recent mayoral

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:16

elections. It's

[Jessa]: 00:21:19

No.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:19

not like s-

[Jessa]: 00:21:20

So I go back to see, you know, what is Olivia's position on this? We're going to

[Jessa]: 00:21:25

talk about it. What can people look forward to it? And yeah, she's promised $60

[Jessa]: 00:21:29

million to build this busway. Other than that, you couldn't find hardly anything

[Jessa]: 00:21:37

on transit at all. Even there was an article by The Rabble, which normally does

[Jessa]: 00:21:43

really great stuff. And the headline labeled Olivia as a champion for transit and

[Jessa]: 00:21:48

housing. But the word transit didn't appear again in their article.

[Jessa]: 00:21:58

Oh, I thought you were fact checking me.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:07

Sorry about that.

[Jessa]: 00:22:08

It's okay. And in a city that has so many people that are relying on transit, it

[Jessa]: 00:22:15

was astonishing that it wasn't front and center. But I think that speaks to what

[Jessa]: 00:22:18

you just said. It's not just the Scarborough debacle, but it's transit underfunding in general

[Jessa]: 00:22:23

that is spitting on poor folks. Like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:26

I wanna

[Jessa]: 00:22:26

ideally,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:26

met.

[Jessa]: 00:22:27

it's built for all people, but it's not.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:29

I want to mention when it comes to article, I attempted to write

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:32

an article about this actually about the cut cuts, the wait

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:38

time increases specifically affecting Scarborough. And my professor seemed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:43

utterly disinterested in the idea of me writing that story.

[Jessa]: 00:22:47

You see from Lee's side.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:50

He worked for the Toronto Sun as a crime reporter. So you know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:54

I'm not sure where he's from. But anyways, point being. that like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:59

yeah, I remember, okay, I'm not writing this, somebody will write

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:02

this. And I remember waiting to see that article be written because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:05

it was on my radar. And I'm just a journalism student. So if it's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:10

on my radar, somebody who is actually working in the industry should

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:14

definitely have noticed and nobody was writing articles about this

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:17

and it was absolutely infuriating. And like I said, this is a massive

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:22

community. Bigger than, like if you were to start naming major,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:26

I remember I saw a list earlier this morning about major cities

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:30

in North America that Scarborough is bigger than, and it is,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:34

it's shocking. I don't have the list, but there is many recognizable

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:38

cities that have major sports teams that are like big cities

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:43

that are,

[Jessa]: 00:23:44

It's not the burbs that people think it is.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:46

no, it's a massive community. And the fact that nobody even cares

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:53

to talk about this. And once again, like, and bringing it back

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:56

to, you know, economy and stuff like that, there's no logic in isolating

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:02

the people of Scarborough from the rest of the GTA from the core of Toronto.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:09

There's no logic in this. It doesn't make.

[Jessa]: 00:24:13

Well, let's be fair, they've already been priced out of the core. Most city attractions,

[Jessa]: 00:24:17

anything to do, most families can't afford to do them. And they will travel. I've

[Jessa]: 00:24:26

had to, living in Scarborough, take two hour bus rides to school and back to work

[Jessa]: 00:24:31

and back. You just have to do it. You don't have a choice. And so it's just the suffering

[Jessa]: 00:24:36

they don't care about. You

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:38

And

[Jessa]: 00:24:38

know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:38

also

[Jessa]: 00:24:38

you still

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:39

just

[Jessa]: 00:24:39

have to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:39

the

[Jessa]: 00:24:39

get

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:39

impact

[Jessa]: 00:24:39

where you gotta go.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:40

and the impacts of that time. I mean, that's how many hours a

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:45

week does that become of time? That is that is wasted on a commute.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:52

I mean, this is this is not logical Scarborough is a borough of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:58

Toronto that has no access to Toronto. No easy access to Toronto.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:05

And You know, like you start talking to people who, because I

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:11

live in downtown and a lot of people here, they just never been

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:16

out to Scarborough. They don't even, they never been to Scarborough

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:19

in their life. They don't even know what Scarborough looks like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:21

you know. People have been to the other boroughs, you know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:24

everyone knows North York. Everyone's been to East York. Everyone's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:28

been at some point had to go to Etobicoke for something or another.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:33

But people have never been to Scarborough. And

[Jessa]: 00:25:36

It's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:36

that's

[Jessa]: 00:25:36

a nice

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:36

strange.

[Jessa]: 00:25:36

place they should visit.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:38

I mean, the food is

[Jessa]: 00:25:39

It

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:39

incredible.

[Jessa]: 00:25:39

can't be all that bad, I grew up there. But I think we're being unfair to Chloe Brown

[Jessa]: 00:25:45

because I think if there's anybody during the election that was focused on Scarborough

[Jessa]: 00:25:51

and the needs of the communities usually ignored, Chloe Brown consistently brought up

[Jessa]: 00:25:57

solutions for that area. So I'm sure if she was listening, she'd be like, I did,

[Jessa]: 00:26:01

I did, no one would listen. So, and. TTC writers, we had them on a few months ago.

[Jessa]: 00:26:09

They have been advocating for solutions in Scarborough for some time now, so. going

[Jessa]: 00:26:16

to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:26:16

Oh yeah.

[Jessa]: 00:26:17

summarize them. Hold on, I'm going to need a nerd.

[Jessa]: 00:26:23

So obviously the long-term goals that TTC riders and advocacy group for public transit

[Jessa]: 00:26:31

have become a lot more urgent with the derailment and the possible end of the

[Jessa]: 00:26:35

Scarborough RT, but they've got some great ideas that I think you will like if you

[Jessa]: 00:26:39

haven't taken a look already. So, you know, they've got eight years at least, because

[Jessa]: 00:26:44

let's be honest, if Metrolinx is involved, we're probably talking about 15 years until

[Jessa]: 00:26:48

that subway's built, or whatever they end up building. And... They want to decommission

[Jessa]: 00:26:55

it and turn that into the busway with a green public space, you know, for pedestrians

[Jessa]: 00:27:02

and cyclists, free transfers. In the meantime, for folks going between Go Transit

[Jessa]: 00:27:10

or the other service providers so that people can get around in Scarborough in more

[Jessa]: 00:27:14

ways than having to rely on that busway. The Eglinton LRT, the Eglinton East LRT is

[Jessa]: 00:27:21

another big issue with Toronto Transit. It's just sitting there not being used, which

[Jessa]: 00:27:27

again is stopping people from the East end of the city getting into the core. And

[Jessa]: 00:27:33

it's just sitting there driving my dad crazy in this neighborhood. You still can't

[Jessa]: 00:27:37

get in and out. Um, they also want to preserve that corridor long-term for that

[Jessa]: 00:27:43

same kind of public space that we were talking about. So another shout out to TTC

[Jessa]: 00:27:47

writers for having so many solutions. I hope they go far with the current mayor.

[Jessa]: 00:27:52

I mean, they're great ideas, but still, but still it still means no matter what for

[Jessa]: 00:27:57

the next minimum eight years, a whole lot of people in Scarborough will only have

[Jessa]: 00:28:03

a bus to get them into the core of the city. Like that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:07

It's...

[Jessa]: 00:28:07

is unacceptable that if you read through the story of this. fucking Scarborough expansion,

[Jessa]: 00:28:14

it's such a soap opera of political debates gone wrong and indecision and flip-flops.

[Jessa]: 00:28:22

I'm not gonna take the space to go into the exact history of it, folks can look

[Jessa]: 00:28:26

it up for themselves, but it's just an example of political inaction. And even

[Jessa]: 00:28:31

the counselors in Scarborough did are such a poor job of advocating for the folks

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:35

Oh,

[Jessa]: 00:28:36

there.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:36

yeah

[Jessa]: 00:28:36

They were just like mad they couldn't have. hard rail instead of light rail and didn't

[Jessa]: 00:28:40

want to be treated as second class citizens. It's like such a horrible perspective

[Jessa]: 00:28:44

to come at it from.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:46

And it's also just to be clear, like this is not the norm across

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:51

the world in industrialized nations. I mean, we're talking about a transit

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:57

system in Toronto that is truly, truly behind. Every single major

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:04

city across the world that is even a lot of major cities in non-industrialized

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:10

countries are more Developed than Toronto's and I can't help but

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:15

think of places of high density cities in Asia that have incredibly

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:22

Developed public transit them somehow managed to move Millions

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:28

more people than what we have in Toronto and Toronto once again

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:31

is one of the it's either third fourth I forget I think it's third

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:35

no it's the fourth largest city in North America fourth largest

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:40

city in North America we're not talking about a city and it's a major

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:45

financial hub. We're not talking about a city that doesn't have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:49

access to the kind of population slash funding that would generally

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:57

be allocated to a city of this caliber to be able to develop

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:01

something. I mean, for fuck's sake, go look at like the, just

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:04

the subway map of any fucking European city and then look at

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:08

Toronto's and it's embarrassing, even compared to Montreal and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:11

it's embarrassing. This is truly what should be. We are to a certain

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:20

extent an international laughing stock for this kind of thing, but

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:23

we don't feel that. We think that this is the norm because we have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:26

no idea what's going on anywhere else. And we act like it's so difficult.

[Jessa]: 00:30:33

I'm just laughing because you stole that line like right out of my mouth. Like

[Jessa]: 00:30:36

I was thinking there's nothing more embarrassing than comparing Toronto subway

[Jessa]: 00:30:40

map when you go abroad. Do it for fun while you're listening. Um, in that comparison,

[Jessa]: 00:30:48

though, it made me think of something I wanted to share back to what Herman said

[Jessa]: 00:30:53

in our TTC writers episode, when he stressed the need for transit to be for everyone.

[Jessa]: 00:31:01

Now, right now it's mostly geared towards poor folks who absolutely need it for the most

[Jessa]: 00:31:08

part and that's why it's largely underfunded because nobody advocates for the poor, right?

[Jessa]: 00:31:12

We know that. But in the same way... Stop. Herman says this in the episode mostly

[Jessa]: 00:31:22

because we're talking about climate change and transit as a solution higher ridership

[Jessa]: 00:31:28

would have on lowering our emissions. But I think he was also getting at something

[Jessa]: 00:31:35

else that I didn't really get until now, not fully, until I started chirping about

[Jessa]: 00:31:40

private schools. And the reason I don't think private schools should exist is because

[Jessa]: 00:31:45

everyone's kids should be in the public school system. Yes, there's problems with the

[Jessa]: 00:31:50

public school system and how it's structured and it needs work and it needs a lot more funding.

[Jessa]: 00:31:56

However, the existence of charter schools and private schools and religious schools allows

[Jessa]: 00:32:02

rich folks to not give a shit. Literally, our ministers of education in Toronto and Ontario

[Jessa]: 00:32:08

have never even gone to public school. They don't know what it needs, they don't care.

[Jessa]: 00:32:15

And so it's lost. The same would exist if we designed our cities to public transit

[Jessa]: 00:32:23

and not to cars because you would have to take public transit, right? Making people

[Jessa]: 00:32:29

have to take public transit would incentivize politicians and rich folks alike to have good,

[Jessa]: 00:32:37

well-funded transit, clean transit, safe transit, fast transit. But they don't,

[Jessa]: 00:32:43

it's just for the poor folks right now. Right? And not even. Because every time

[Jessa]: 00:32:50

you see root cancellations, they're again, in the most underserviced areas. It's

[Jessa]: 00:32:54

like a cost benefit analysis rather than a how else are those people gonna get

[Jessa]: 00:32:58

where they need to go analysis and realizing it's a public service and not something

[Jessa]: 00:33:04

that is always gonna be cost effective. Because you know, John Tory adds $53 million

[Jessa]: 00:33:11

to the transit budget. And you're like, oh, yay, like that is a significant increase.

[Jessa]: 00:33:16

And then you find out, well, that also went to hiring 50 more security constables.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:24

Yeah, no.

[Jessa]: 00:33:26

And he promised to make most of it up with fare increases. So on the backs of

[Jessa]: 00:33:31

the people who can't afford to drive, they're gonna pay for more constables on the

[Jessa]: 00:33:35

line.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:36

And a reminder that we already pay within the top five or ten.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:41

fares, I think it's top five for monthly fares, top 10 for single

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:47

rider fares of any transit system anywhere in the world. Like

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:50

we're paying already way, way more. And you look at the countries

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:56

that are paying more than us and they all have incredibly elaborate

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:00

complex transit systems that can get you anywhere you want to go in

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:04

the city. We don't. So we're paying all of these incredibly high

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:10

fares for nothing. We get nothing in return. We get a broken system

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:16

that barely meets the needs of many Torontonians and doesn't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:21

meet the needs of so many more Torontonians. And not even to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:25

mention all the people who are not even Torontonians, but who work

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:29

in Toronto and how difficult it is just to get into the city and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:34

how talking about how expensive go transit is right like you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:39

want to take the go train into city I know people were paying

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:42

$20 a day for those round trips in and out of the city from the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:48

suburbs where and then they still have to drive their car to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:52

get to the station because their suburbs don't have adequate transit

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:56

systems to take them to the go train station and if they do well

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:01

guess what you're paying an additional oftentimes I see it Right

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:08

because you're paying four dollars four dollars for that take it

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:14

in a different area. And same thing, like ask anybody who lives

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:17

in Mississauga who works in Toronto. I know so many people who

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:21

live in Mississauga and who work in Toronto, who are paying incredibly

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:24

high prices every single day. And on top of that, losing so much

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:28

of their time. And of course, every now and then I hear people

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:32

say, things about how employers should be compensating for that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:37

time. And I strongly agree. And of course they don't. But...

[Jessa]: 00:35:42

In fairness, that should be done in their taxes, right? Their under-taxed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:46

Yeah,

[Jessa]: 00:35:47

businesses.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:47

no, but that's the point. It's just like We're getting a really

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:52

shitty deal here yet. We think we live in this Ad this advanced

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:59

city. It's like no, please I beg people to go learn what the rest

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:36:03

of the world looks like Like so many of these issues only exist

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:36:07

out of out of ignorance Because we don't know what the rest of the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:36:12

world looks like

[Jessa]: 00:36:14

One of the things that has plagued Canadian cities as well is really poor leadership.

[Jessa]: 00:36:20

And to give folks an understanding of how Canadian politics work in that regard,

[Jessa]: 00:36:28

municipalities have very limited ways of raising funds. So it's no wonder they raise

[Jessa]: 00:36:34

fares every time they have to increase funding for the transit system. They only really

[Jessa]: 00:36:38

have property taxes and... building permits, very limited revenue resources. It's

[Jessa]: 00:36:44

the provinces and the federal government that take in most of our taxes and should be

[Jessa]: 00:36:48

putting it back into transit. But not to worry, here's my sarcasm tone for those

[Jessa]: 00:36:55

who might not be able to recognize it. Justin Trudeau has announced billions in

[Jessa]: 00:37:01

permanent public transit funding. So for example, knowing the busway. may cost 60

[Jessa]: 00:37:10

million dollars. That's just Scarborough's busway to solve one little problem for eight

[Jessa]: 00:37:14

years. 60 million. So what do you think federal government funding for permanent transit,

[Jessa]: 00:37:24

sorry, so what do you think the yearly allotment from the federal government should

[Jessa]: 00:37:28

be for all of Canada when we're talking, when they say permanent public transit funding?

[Jessa]: 00:37:35

Santiago, do you want to give it a guess? Like what should it be?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:37:42

Honestly, don't have a number, but I am of the belief that it should

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:37:50

be whatever is necessary.

[Jessa]: 00:37:54

whatever it takes.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:37:56

Because any investment in public transit will pay for itself and its

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:03

benefits to society. So it's not the type of thing where we should

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:07

be. even concerning ourselves with how much it costs. That money

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:11

will make itself back in not being lost in other ways. So it's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:17

like, if it costs, you could give me a hundred billion, say,

[Jessa]: 00:38:22

Well, I'm only

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:22

to develop

[Jessa]: 00:38:22

going to give

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:23

public.

[Jessa]: 00:38:23

you three.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:23

Yeah.

[Jessa]: 00:38:24

You get three from the feds and that's got to be split across Canada. $3 billion a

[Jessa]: 00:38:32

year. And they were very excited about this announcement.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:38

Of course they were.

[Jessa]: 00:38:39

So clearly the federal government cannot help Toronto with its transit funding woes.

[Jessa]: 00:38:46

They won't help Olivia with her housing issue either. I mean that's a story for another

[Jessa]: 00:38:50

day, but the feds love to pretend they're doing a lot of help and they really do nothing

[Jessa]: 00:38:55

at all, but that's okay. They're never one to be outdone by the provincial government.

[Jessa]: 00:39:02

Doug Ford standing there like he wasn't on council during all of this and saying, oh

[Jessa]: 00:39:07

well, the province could have fixed this years ago. Council could have fixed this

[Jessa]: 00:39:11

years ago. We have no idea if he's going to fix this. My guess is no.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:18

I'd strongly believe no. And it's funny because it's like, if you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:23

did fix this, then you'd have a bunch of people supporting you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:27

and you'd guarantee power for your party or whatever, you know?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:33

But apparently like they're that secure in their control that they

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:39

don't have to worry about 600,000 people. That doesn't matter.

[Jessa]: 00:39:48

for folks who want to, a call to act, wait, start again.

[Jessa]: 00:39:59

For folks that want a way to push back in all of this, we do highly recommend TTC

[Jessa]: 00:40:05

writers. You'll remember they were on a few episodes ago, but they have a petition

[Jessa]: 00:40:11

specifically aimed at the issues in Scarborough, but they do so much more. So again,

[Jessa]: 00:40:18

we will link you to them in our show notes.

[Jessa]: 00:40:25

I can't end like that.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:40:29

Let me think. Sorry, I've never been good at endings.

[Jessa]: 00:40:41

I think we put it back on Olivia. Maybe just.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:40:47

Yeah, maybe just like end. Olivia Chow has the ability to make,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:40:53

pressuring Olivia Chow, yeah.

[Jessa]: 00:40:58

Yeah, so in the end, it's going to come down to what Olivia Chow's willing to

[Jessa]: 00:41:01

do on this portfolio. The jury's still out on that. So that tells us that the work

[Jessa]: 00:41:07

of TTC writers and other advocates still need to be holding people's feet to the

[Jessa]: 00:41:12

fire because there is no solution for Scarborough right now. But this is just a microcosm

[Jessa]: 00:41:17

of the transit woes in Toronto and in Canada in general. Is that good?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:28

Yeah. It'll do. It'll do.

[Jessa]: 00:41:31

Okay.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:32

I feel like you're allowed to kind of end roughly, because, you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:35

know, if people stuck around long enough, I don't think they're too

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:39

concerned.