Organizing Métis: Adversarial AND Reconciliatory
Activists within the Manitoba Métis Federation (MMF) are pushing to get their leaders to cut ties with Israel, take a stand for Palestine, and end their partnership with Ben-Gurion University. Their efforts haven't exactly been appreciated by everyone.
Returning guest and Métis activist, Ben Nolan, explains the politics involved with the partnership and the reluctancy to end it. He recently withdrew his citizenship in the Metis Nation of Ontario (MNO) over THEIR silence on the genocide in Gaza. Read his letter here.
Ben also draws parallels to other comprador style positions the MMF, and its longtime President David Chartrand, have taken - like giving Bill C5 their stamp of approval, or standing with Winnipeg Police after they shot and killed Eishia Hudson.
It was the last mentioned which "galvanized" Sonja Stone, a registered social worker and member of the MMF Two-Spirit Michif Local to challenge some of the ideology permeating the MMF. She talks about the balance that's needed to maneuver through these discussions without fracturing the MMF community.
Sonja also shares very specific ways in which they organize to accommodate queer and neurodivergent members, and provide a space of care within the chaos of politics.
Similar to the treatment Palestinian solidarity activists have received inside other politicized spaces like the NDP, push back has come in all forms - sometimes openly hostile.
A third, anonymous member of the MMF tells the story of young Metis advocates shouted down and threatened with violence for bringing forth a motion on Palestine, and stresses the importance of "horizontal reconciliation" within the community.
Hear how these activists plan to push for change, fight for a Free Palestine, AND strengthen their bonds with the community at the same time.
If you'd like to contact Metis4Palestine: (email) metis4palestine{AT}proton{DOT}me or via https://chat.whatsapp.com/G10LkP4anLMCyjeF4Nd7VJ
Hosted by: Jessa McLean
Related Episodes:
- Whatever It Takes: Land Back (Sep 2022) Layla Staats and Skyler Williams of Six Nations of the Grand River, speaking about their efforts to ensure the survival of their community.
- Making Connections From Salish Sea to Palestine (Feb 2026) Sisters in film, Rawan Ramini and Jada-Gabrielle Pape were brought together for the film, From Salish Sea to Palestine. They joined Blueprints to talk about their use of the medium to make connections between movements, and tell the 'true stories' of their people.
- Exposing Toronto Police Tactics (Sep 2024) Activist and journalist Benjamin Nolan on the Toronto Police Services' violent responses to peaceful protests and their use of the knee-on-neck technique.
More Resources:
- Ben's Letter to the MNO w/update
- Guest Recommended Reading: Howard Adam's Prisons of Grass
- CBC: Manitoba Métis Federation president's remark in heated debate on Israel-Hamas war sparks concern
- CBC: Make it 5 for MMF president David Chartrand, running uncontested again
- CBC: Police shooting of Eishia Hudson not justified, earlier assessment flawed, expert tells inquest
- MMF Website: An International Education Exchange Between The Red River Métis And Israel
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Transcript
Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean, and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints
Speaker:of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, examining
Speaker:power structures, and sharing the success stories from the grassroots. Through these discussions,
Speaker:we hope to provide folks with the tools and the inspiration they need to start to dismantle
Speaker:capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring about the political revolution that we know
Speaker:we need. Okay, welcome, everybody. Let's introduce you to the audience, starting with Sonia, please.
Speaker:Hello, my name is Sonia Stone. I'm a registered social worker. I've been the secretary of the
Speaker:Manitoba Métis Federation's Two-Spirit Michif Local for I'm in year five at the moment.
Speaker:My second term just began. I've been a lifelong creature of the Red River Settlement. I was
Speaker:born here. I spent a lot of time on Lake Winnipeg in my childhood. We lived out in Grand Marais
Speaker:area or what might be known as Balsam Bay, Stony Point, Victoria Beach. And I am just
Speaker:in the beginnings of creating a fabulous group of Métis people. for Palestine. Let's go to
Speaker:the black square. Hi, so I'm a Red River Métis citizen. I'm from Manitoba and for reasons
Speaker:of professional capacity, I'm unable to identify myself, probably like a lot of other Métis
Speaker:citizens in or MMF citizens in Manitoba and mainly around this issue of Zionism around
Speaker:the MMF. So I originally got involved with this fine group of people to organize around the
Speaker:collective Métis for Palestine as well. Well, we can certainly understand that. We've done
Speaker:quite a few stories of retribution. So thank you for joining us either way. And Ben, welcome
Speaker:back. Thanks, Jess. It's nice to see you again. And yeah, thank you for giving us this opportunity
Speaker:to sort of engage this issue. Unlike the other two, I'm not currently an MMF citizen. I am
Speaker:a Red River. I may or may not be a citizen of the MNO, as we'll discuss. recently sent them
Speaker:a letter requesting that my citizenship be dissolved. I don't know whether they've heard that request.
Speaker:I've seen no sign and I've gotten no official response. But I'm also a Toronto-based activist.
Speaker:I'm very engaged by also the issue of Palestine and I actually kind of found my way back into
Speaker:a Metis identity through the sort of model of Palestinian resistance. I think as I talked
Speaker:about in the letter that I sent to the MNO, always kind of, I didn't grow up in community.
Speaker:You know, my grandfather tried really hard, I think to assimilate into Canadian society
Speaker:and... whenever I kind of talked about or it came up to sort of claim the Metis identity,
Speaker:it was always kind of framed by the sort of settlers around me as like, oh yeah, you'll
Speaker:get like cheap tuition or you'll get this or that personal benefit. And that always seemed
Speaker:like, it just seemed, it seemed inappropriate and it seemed like a terrible reason to reconnect.
Speaker:so. You know, it was kind of through Palestine that I came to recognize that that that feeling,
Speaker:that feeling that you can't legitimately reconnect, that you have to just sort of reconcile yourself
Speaker:to assimilation is actually a colonial tactic and a genocidal tactic, tactic of erasure.
Speaker:And so, you know, I've been looking to sort of, you know, reconnect and find that community.
Speaker:I think we're going to hit a lot on decolonizing and reconciliation. And as we go through the
Speaker:discussion, we're going to stay with Ben for a second though and talk a little bit more
Speaker:about that letter, why you felt the need to write that. And maybe if you can help folks
Speaker:navigate all these acronyms, MNO and MMF and... kind of give us a little bit of a Coles note
Speaker:so that we can position ourselves to hear more of Sonia's story and the significance of the
Speaker:organizing that's happening right now within the Manitoba Metis Federation. So to your
Speaker:letter, Ben. I mean, you know, maybe I'll start by giving a bit of a family history as a way
Speaker:to sort of build up towards explaining those acronyms. And then I think talking about the
Speaker:letter will be a bit more meaningful. you know, essentially my grandfather was born in Northern
Speaker:Alberta in a sort of farming community called La Mouheur that his family had resettled in
Speaker:after his father was displaced by the Northwest resistance. They were in the Battleford area
Speaker:after his father was displaced by the Red River resistance. His father was Duncan Nolain who
Speaker:was first cousins with Louis Riel actually. And so essentially subsequent to the Canadian
Speaker:government's betrayal of, you know, what is arguably the treaty of the Manitoba Act and
Speaker:the sort of subversion of, you know, essentially Metis relations to land there. And I mean,
Speaker:it was a concept of like collective property that was operative. was like families had.
Speaker:farms and stuff, but there was a lot of sort of common territory that the community relied
Speaker:on for its sustenance. And obviously this wasn't very, this didn't fit the concept of what
Speaker:Canada wanted for what it claimed as its West, right? And so they sent in speculators and
Speaker:completely subverted all of the land and sold, essentially sold the land out from underneath,
Speaker:I think all of our ancestors. Subsequent to that, Metis spent the better part of a century,
Speaker:know, landless and in many cases confined to ghettos on the sides of highways, on the sides
Speaker:of railway tracks, in super poor communities, especially in the Northwest. And it was in
Speaker:that a bit of an inversion of what happened to the First Nations people in the same territory,
Speaker:whereas, you know, they were confined to reserves. the Metis were very much dispersed, right?
Speaker:And this was a pretty alienating way to be, and there were still communal ties, and there
Speaker:was this pride in this history of resistance that led to there being this sort of like,
Speaker:this community of people that were carrying the torch of the culture, right? Ultimately,
Speaker:this led in... the run up to the repatriation of the Canadian constitution in 1982, through
Speaker:a lot of organizing, the Métis being recognized as one of Canada's Aboriginal peoples, right?
Speaker:And this really kind of changed the whole like mode through which the Métis related to the
Speaker:various sort of levels of Canadian government. So as you mentioned, we... You know, we have
Speaker:things like the Métis Nation of Ontario, MNO, the Manitoba Métis Federation. There's governments
Speaker:for BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan as well that relate with the provincial governments, which
Speaker:is again very different from First Nations and Inuit who relate directly through I think Section
Speaker:35 to the federal government. This is because the Métis still don't have recognition under
Speaker:section 35. But it's again why we're so fragmented. But yeah, I mean, to that point, I don't know,
Speaker:actually, can I just maybe go to Sonia to ask if you want to like flesh in any of those details?
Speaker:Or was that an all right summary? That was great. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I can't
Speaker:really add anything. Besides, yeah, lot of our grandfathers did have to do their damned
Speaker:best to assimilate. My grandfather was the son of a chief of police in Transcona, who
Speaker:died very early, like 48, I believe. And my grandfather was 11, and he ended up having
Speaker:to be the man of the house. Got a job in the CN Rail yard and worked his way up. to become
Speaker:like the manager of the junkyard and retired with a pension and he assimilated but it was
Speaker:like he was passing. Everyone assumed he was Hawaiian because he was going to Hawaii for
Speaker:vacation every winter and he just let them think he was Hawaiian. And that's kind of like the
Speaker:way he got away with looking the way he did. being as large, like big scary Indian kind
Speaker:of guy. Yeah. And everyone thought he was this like really cool Hawaiian guy who just
Speaker:landed here somehow. Or maybe that was just like the polite way of saying he was native,
Speaker:you know, not really sure. But yeah, that's how we got by in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Yeah. I'd
Speaker:like to at some point, maybe now would be the best time to talk about, because also we will
Speaker:make comparisons to some of the issues that you're facing within the MMF to other structures,
Speaker:colonial structures. it'll make sense why we're seeing those similarities and the concentration
Speaker:of power. But there is a certain significance and importance to organizing within the MMF.
Speaker:I think that carries a lot more weight than say the NDP for which we'll make most of these
Speaker:comparisons. Do you want to talk, that would be Sonia or any of the other participants,
Speaker:why it's so important, not just for Palestine, we will get there, why there's issues that
Speaker:need changing, but why ever engage in this space and its importance to the greater Métis community?
Speaker:Yeah, this is a moment of particular importance for the Red River Métis specifically because
Speaker:we're really, really close to actually having a solid treaty with the nation, Canada, which
Speaker:is something we've never had. We attempted it in, you know, late 1800s with the Manitoba
Speaker:Act and the Scripps system, and that did not work out well. So yeah, we're right on the
Speaker:brink of actually having a decent treaty, which I think we will be able to hold Canada to account
Speaker:with. It seems to us that they really do intend to honor this treaty, and they've been working
Speaker:towards reconciliation, especially in regards to the script system. just by way of our post-secondary
Speaker:education support program. It's a highly successful program in the Manitowom A.T. Federation.
Speaker:And I believe it's very much because of the federal government's eagerness to make us whole
Speaker:again. Ben, do you want to speak from your perspective too, especially since you've withdrawn membership
Speaker:from the MNO or you're attempting to? and deciding to wade into the MMF. And so like, why? Okay,
Speaker:so basically, I decided to apply for citizenship on Louis Riel Day in the fall of 2023, in November
Speaker:of 2023. Mostly because I was extremely disgusted with the way that the Canadian settler state
Speaker:was you know, refusing to acknowledge the genocide that was already accelerating. I think by mid-November
Speaker:of 2023, it was already clear that some 20 to 30,000 Palestinian civilians had been massacred.
Speaker:My MP at the time, Marco Mendicino, was visiting so-called Israel and posing in front of the
Speaker:flag and doing all kinds of propaganda about how... Essentially, it was essential that Canada
Speaker:continue to support in any way that it can this settler colony that was committing what already
Speaker:was, I think, the most spectacular colonial genocide in history. And I mean that, I mean,
Speaker:in the sense that no other genocide has been so visible as it was happening from the other
Speaker:side of the world. mean, the Holocaust was horrific, but you weren't seeing you know, the people
Speaker:in the camps on your phone, you know, begging for you to stop your government from, from
Speaker:supporting the people that are killing them, you know, in, in, the way that we, had already
Speaker:by November of 2023. Um, and so that kind of drove me to like, again, you know, I, I guess
Speaker:I understand it as like hearing the voice of my ancestors in the Red River resistance to
Speaker:like, maybe see if I could find some of that spirit in the MNO. And so I went and I got
Speaker:all the documents necessary to apply for citizenship that you'd like your birth records and various
Speaker:other, know, proofs that connect you to the script system. And so that was no problem in
Speaker:my case. And I was, I think approved like some five or six months later. And, you know, what
Speaker:I noticed in the meantime, as I came into the organization was that the Metis political scene
Speaker:was a total mess. The MNO and the MMF were like at complete odds with one another. I
Speaker:think the MMF accuses the MNO as being like essentially a pretend organization. The MNO
Speaker:was at some point, think forced to cut some like 5,000 of its citizens from the roles because
Speaker:upon an audit, it was revealed that they actually didn't have any connection to any. root ancestors
Speaker:at all. So there was some credibility there, but at the same time, it also seemed transparently
Speaker:to be about like who would end up being able to be the force that spoke for the Metis nation.
Speaker:I think it's still the case of the MNO claims the most Metis citizens. So there is a certain
Speaker:majority there and they currently dominate the Metis National Council, which the MMF and the
Speaker:Saskatchewan nation have now withdrawn from. And I was like, what is this all about? How
Speaker:do I adjudicate this? So I dove into all kinds of research. And at the end of the day, you
Speaker:know, it seemed that fundamentally it was kind of about, it wasn't clear what it was about.
Speaker:It was, it seemed to just be about who could, who could claim the most, who could, who could,
Speaker:who could claim on behalf of the Metis, the most sort of goodies from the federal government.
Speaker:That was the cynical thought that entered my head and kind of continued to fester. to me,
Speaker:was like, you know, that's not what I'm interested in being a part of. And so I was like kind
Speaker:of looking for comrades. I was showing up to these like constitutional consulting sessions
Speaker:and, you know, I found that they were very like polished. were very like run by consultants
Speaker:and very compatible with essentially the settler states agenda. Meanwhile, the MNO at least
Speaker:has completely alienated all of the various First Nations in Ontario because they've taken
Speaker:to claiming these Metis quote unquote homelands throughout the province that aren't recognized
Speaker:by the other First Nations governments. And again, I'm not entirely sure how to adjudicate
Speaker:that the Métis Nation of Ontario has released this long report arguing for why this is legitimate.
Speaker:It's been completely rejected by the MNF and completely rejected by the chiefs of Ontario.
Speaker:you know, it's a mess. And again, it's helped reinforce my idea that this is fundamentally
Speaker:about trying to get in on consultation rights. And that's what fundamentally the stake is.
Speaker:And that to me is the significance in a weird way of... the Métis recognition in 1982 is
Speaker:one of Canada's first nations, or one of Canada's not first nations, one of Canada's Aboriginal
Speaker:peoples, like as if we belong to the settler state. Suddenly the terms are essentially the
Speaker:settler state and it's all about this vertical reconciliation where it's us doing the reconciling
Speaker:with the agenda of the settler state and fuck everyone else, right? And because I joined,
Speaker:mean, unambiguously, the Palestinian struggle is an indigenous struggle. It's part of the
Speaker:international indigenous struggle against the global force of Imperial colonialism. I had
Speaker:tried to reconnect with this to be part of that international struggle. Something that, you
Speaker:know, our forebears recognized. I mean, I was reading, you know, I've been reading a lot
Speaker:of Howard Adams, who was a brilliant, Metis sort of thinker. who was writing kind of in
Speaker:the 70s, especially his famous book is Prison of Grass. And I mean, he's very embedded and
Speaker:aware of himself as part of an international indigenous struggle. And I just wasn't finding
Speaker:that. And I mean, I was going to all of these actions, indigenous focused actions in support
Speaker:of like Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs when they were like crashing the Royal Bank, investors
Speaker:meaning or. You know, I think I was like manning the water table at the Kill Bill Five rally.
Speaker:I was like driving the truck at the Grassing Arrows River Run. And I was the only like,
Speaker:Métis there, you know, there was, we were, it was me. And then it was, we'd show up when
Speaker:there was a land acknowledgement. And to me, I was like, well, what am I doing? Why am I
Speaker:even claiming this identity if the reason that I want it is to connect to these struggles
Speaker:in sort of solidarity? Like, you know, so that's that's, is that an answer? I kind of forget
Speaker:what question I was even answering. just sort of went off on a. Not only did you answer
Speaker:the question, but you're going to lead us into the next part of the discussion because you're
Speaker:talking about, you know, previous acknowledgments to the common indigenous struggles. We're talking
Speaker:about Palestine and in my. Precursor with. the three of you, all of you gave me shocking
Speaker:examples that Ben, think you helped start to explain how we got to this point where, and
Speaker:you allude to it in your letter, you know, the MNO might be bad, but at least they're not
Speaker:the MMF when it comes to cooperating with the occupation, right? And creating partnerships
Speaker:and siding with cops and like there's a few stories here that point to problems. The chair
Speaker:of the of the York Toronto region, Métis Council is actually a Toronto Police Service veteran.
Speaker:And I mean, again, I don't want to like I would say that I have I have different critiques
Speaker:for the MNO and the MMF. I wouldn't necessarily rank them. I mean, one thing I will say that,
Speaker:you know, among MMF citizens, I've found amazing comrades like Sonia and like Anonymous. So,
Speaker:yeah, I just want to give that caveat. All right. Sonia, maybe you can help us before
Speaker:we maybe get to the current situation, because you have... been with the MMF and working and
Speaker:volunteering and however the organization works in various capacities over a long time. I think
Speaker:you said to me you basically kind of grew up in it. Yeah, a little bit. I wasn't like there's
Speaker:certain people who grew up in the MMF literally being the children of ministers of like in
Speaker:the cabinet. And yeah, there's a lot of that in the MMF where, yeah, children grow up. attending
Speaker:the meetings and all of that. But how I sort of entered into the MMF was my grandfather
Speaker:finally told my mom where his mom was from, which was St. Andrews, a town called Mapleton,
Speaker:very, like the next little neighborhood north of Lower Fort Gary on the Red River settlement.
Speaker:So he told her that's where his mom had grown up, as she'd also, she'd been born in Kenora,
Speaker:so she'd grown up going back and forth between St. Andrews on the Red River, all the way
Speaker:up to Winnipeg River, through the Lake Winnipeg, up to the Winnipeg River, down there, all the
Speaker:way into the English River, the literal superhighway of the Les Voyageurs. And so she was like,
Speaker:oh shit, we should get a Manitoba Métis Federation citizenship. And she was like, she kind of
Speaker:realized why we lived in Grand Marais where my grandfather had retired. It was kind of
Speaker:like the kind of the vacation spot of the CN workers. But it's also a Métis community.
Speaker:And he'd connected very hard in the Sien with the Thomas family of Grand Marie. And yeah,
Speaker:those were the neighbors I grew up with and all of that. And Denise Thomas, the Southeast
Speaker:region minister of the Management Native Federation, married into that family. And she's been the
Speaker:vice president since the 90s of that region where I grew up. And yeah, I grew up with
Speaker:her daughter-in-law. went to high school, elementary school with her. I rode the school bus with
Speaker:her. So yeah, I forgot my train of thought is gone. What was the question? You're going
Speaker:to help us understand how the MMF got to perhaps a position where they are, that we're going
Speaker:to hear about, right? So we're teasing the audience a little bit, but. Yeah, the basis of your
Speaker:organizing. Like, how did we get to this point? the 90s. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the 90s.
Speaker:I got a job as a summer student in the MMF. Right away, we got our, I actually think I
Speaker:laminated my own citizenship card. If I remember being like, as the summer student in like
Speaker:1999 or 98. So that was sort of my my first real taste of the MMF as a young, young Métis.
Speaker:And yeah, I didn't really realize it until much later that I'd grown up culturally Métis,
Speaker:really. I had grown up in Grand Marais surrounded by Métis kids and had Métis squabbles and did
Speaker:lots of Métis things like cut fish for hours and hours every season, fried fish for hours
Speaker:and hours every evening, that kind of thing. Yeah, so I moved away to Winnipeg to become
Speaker:a grown-up and a two-spirit person and kind of fell out of touch with the MMF. I'd used
Speaker:the education funding and had to drop out because I'd been traumatized. was, you know, recovering
Speaker:from my childhood. It was a very poverty stricken time for me. And yeah, recovering from that
Speaker:was really hard. I wasn't able to get my university degree that I'd really wanted. And yeah, just
Speaker:sort of coasting along, having Metis community around me in various ways, because Winnipeg
Speaker:is Metis. And then Winnipeg police service murdered Isha Hudson, little indigenous girl.
Speaker:She was joyriding. She'd stolen a vehicle or at least she was joyriding around in a stolen
Speaker:vehicle and they chased her down and shot her and killed her and very soon after that David
Speaker:Chartrand, our president in the MMF. opened up a full page advertising advertisement in
Speaker:the Winnipeg Free Press. And that's not a tabloid newspaper, that's a full page and like, I don't
Speaker:know what you call those newspapers that are like more official than tabloids, but that's
Speaker:that's what our free press was at the time. And I was so outraged and disheartened and
Speaker:shocked. I didn't actually realize that David Chartrand held those views. I always assumed
Speaker:he was pretty anti-colonial and was like, you know, kind of grounded in solidarity with other
Speaker:Indigenous peoples, especially children in care. Just to clarify, the ad was in support of
Speaker:the Winnipeg police services. yeah, did I not mention that? No, but you told me that earlier.
Speaker:pad in the Winnipeg Free Press. Yeah, shocking. Proclaiming the support of the Manitoba Métis
Speaker:Federation for Winnipeg police service. It broke my heart. I was so ashamed. I think I made
Speaker:a Facebook post about it. I never called down. my own government, I don't think that's actually
Speaker:right to, you know, criticize your own government unless you're involved. I was like, I'm going
Speaker:to get involved because I need to yell at this man about this or try and influence the people
Speaker:who are following him and just throw some resistance into this because like it's wrong for police
Speaker:officers to chase down a little girl no matter what she's doing and murder her. And I was
Speaker:shocked. I was fucking shocked. So yeah, that's the reason I reconnected with the MMF. I would
Speaker:have quietly been going along with my business being absorbed back into whiteness or whatever
Speaker:the heck was happening to me in my mid-30s when that little girl got murdered. But yeah, he
Speaker:It galvanized me. You know, let's spend a second on David Chartrand. That's the president
Speaker:for almost 30 years now. So even back when you were talking your summer student days between
Speaker:us and disconnecting, reconnecting same president, that is the only he's the only president I've
Speaker:known. He has an amazing personality. I find him very charming and I can see why so many
Speaker:of the Red River Métis are like completely satisfied with him because he appeals to us on a like
Speaker:homegrown emotional level that comforts me even while he's saying outrageous things that make
Speaker:me want to fight him, you know? Yeah, he's got a great personality. His way of words. put
Speaker:together an amazing legal team that has worked in our service and towards our collective benefit
Speaker:for decades now. And yeah, I'm still really mad at him. Yeah. That's a complicated relationship
Speaker:and puts you in a bit of a precarious spot within your community. Do you want to chime in there,
Speaker:Ben? I mean, I just wanted to like also say that like, you know, I'd highlighted how the
Speaker:sort of first experience of coming into awareness of contemporary Metis politics was this confusing,
Speaker:like, encountering this like weird fight between the MMF and the MNO. And my first impulse
Speaker:was to be very sympathetic to the MMF position because they were, you know, they, they, they,
Speaker:had the solidarity of the First Nations chiefs, they seemed to be talking, you know, the talk
Speaker:of, you know, horizontal rather than vertical reconciliation. I'd found out that David Chartrand
Speaker:had, like, gone down to Nicaragua and, like, the 80s hang out with, the Sandinistas or
Speaker:something. I was like, oh, this seems cool. But that was kind of blown up. about two years
Speaker:ago, actually, exactly two years ago at the 2024 AGA, when a couple of younger Métis activists
Speaker:had gotten up to ask about something odd that I had not heard about, which is that the MMF
Speaker:was partnered with the Ben Green University of the Negev, what the Palestinians called
Speaker:the NECAB. which is a colonial university in Israel. And what was that about? And when
Speaker:that was brought up on the floor of the EGA, Chartrain's response was not solidarity or
Speaker:anything, it was to threaten to beat them up for even bringing it up. And so like this kind
Speaker:of idealized picture I had of what's going on was kind of shattered and I found myself in
Speaker:even more. confusion about what it means to be Metis in the year of our Lord 2020, whatever
Speaker:mid 2020s. Does anyone else want to talk about what it's that kind of reaction to change within
Speaker:the organization or pushes for change and how that's been experienced by you? Yeah, if
Speaker:I could chime in there, would be great. Myself, I had a similar. probably situation to both
Speaker:Sonia and Ben here in regards that there's kind of a usually an event for most people that
Speaker:causes them to need to reintegrate back into community. And I find in my generation, it's
Speaker:usually for well, in my specific case, I'm not going to speak for anybody. It's political
Speaker:reasons. And these people are elected representatives. And to speak to that. After my event that kind
Speaker:of galvanized me similarly to Ben's with the MNO and Sonia's with the police service ad
Speaker:was James Lavallee's motion at the 2024 AGA. So he had raised the motion on the floor of
Speaker:our annual general assembly, which is where we all gather every year, once a year. And
Speaker:this is where citizens can gather to table issues or anything, not even issues, things they want
Speaker:to see. Basically we have our direct democracy. We pride ourselves on being a very direct democracy
Speaker:because we have this event, the AGA, where all of us as citizens can go and ask our community
Speaker:and our leaders and we can vote on things, right? So James had brought a resolution to the floor
Speaker:in 2024 about this partnership with the university and just the way that the event was structured.
Speaker:Like I had similar concerns to what James had. I also wondered why we were involved with a
Speaker:university on the front lines of what many would consider a genocide at this time. And I was
Speaker:like, okay, this is like on the front page of my agenda. I wanna know what these people have
Speaker:to say also with like horizontal reconciliation. That's like very big for us as indigenous people.
Speaker:And I was shocked at the treatment that he received. Um, and it kind of made me scared
Speaker:to want to ask the question myself. And I know myself because of professional reasons, I can't
Speaker:identify myself because there would be repercussions in a professional capacity because of just
Speaker:the nature of the topic that we're talking about. And I just kind of felt scared and kind of
Speaker:worried that there might be a lot of other citizens and maybe a lot of other young people around
Speaker:me that are like. Oh, well, I can't speak either because what's the point? I'll get threatened.
Speaker:get like, I would say that MMF and Metis culture is a very, because of how much we've had to
Speaker:protect our spaces, it's very exclusive. Like you have to be vetted in these spaces. This
Speaker:is a very, because of the Indian Act and the way that we've had fraud impact our community.
Speaker:People always have their guard up and it's very easy for a person like David Chartrand to point
Speaker:the gun at you. And I wonder how many other citizens wish that they could speak. And to
Speaker:that point, there's been a collective of citizens that have been able to effectively organize
Speaker:a collective within the MMF called the Métis for Palestine, where we want our voices to
Speaker:be heard without people saying that we don't know what we're talking about or that we are...
Speaker:a misled faction of this democracy that is radical and support, or he even brought the comparison
Speaker:of supporting Hamas terrorists. So that's not what we're like, that carries real repercussions
Speaker:for some of us in the community and we need a space to be safe and to speak. So that's
Speaker:what has been created. And I hope that the lobbying around that creates a real change. It's also
Speaker:ironic just because of, our own history, right? I mean, in what terms were Louis Riel and Gabriel
Speaker:Dumont and stuff like that talked about in Orange, Ontario? They were talked about in the terms
Speaker:of, I don't know if they specifically use the word terrorism, but those were the terms through
Speaker:which they were talked about in this larger frame of the fight between civilization and
Speaker:barbarism. that is exactly the frame that you hear out of the mouth of Netanyahu, out of
Speaker:the mouth of Herzog. That you hear out of the mouth of my old MP, Marco Mendicino, the barbaric
Speaker:Hamas, whatever. It's a tale as old as time, this kind of libel against indigenous people
Speaker:for daring to resist colonial genocide. That's where I'm landing as well. It's been really
Speaker:clear to me since like, I don't know, 2006. I've been watching the news and just like,
Speaker:even though it's propaganda that's very supportive of Israel's perspective and talking points,
Speaker:I'm able to see what's happened. It's been happening on the screen since I started paying attention.
Speaker:Israel's bulldozing homes that literally a Palestinian still inside them. They bulldozed
Speaker:an American girl in what 2012 I think she was protesting. She was literally standing there
Speaker:yelling at them. Activist, very obviously someone who was trying her best to like just defend
Speaker:someone's house. They ran her the fuck over live on television. We get to watch it if we
Speaker:want. That was 11 years before October 7th. So it's not like- color of a sink pancake.
Speaker:Not even- Yeah, like, I don't know how anyone would be in their right mind and want to associate
Speaker:with a genocidal state like Israel, even before 2023, you know? And this raises this issue,
Speaker:right? Because right now within Canada, there's a really big push. coming from the Zionist
Speaker:lobby to assert that Zionism is land back. The Jews, Kwa being Jews are indigenous to
Speaker:the Levant. And this is a notion of indigeneity that is very compatible with colonialism, right?
Speaker:That wants to sort of think that every people has a place like the. French are the indigenous
Speaker:people of France and the this is the indigenous people of there and whatever and in this narrative
Speaker:the Arabs are conquerors that like came into Palestine Never mind that in the Bible itself.
Speaker:There's a story of David conquering Jerusalem as if that's like why is that you it's it's
Speaker:just this absurd line that you know, I think it doesn't need to make sense because the point
Speaker:is just to confuse the issue and to get people to not recognize again that this is an expressly
Speaker:colonial movement. Theodore Ritzel, the founder of Zionism wrote to Cecil Rhodes to ask advice
Speaker:on how to settle Palestine, settle, I think he called it, Asia Minor, he didn't even have
Speaker:his own geography right. And he used the terms, this is colonial. All of the early Zionist
Speaker:institutions had the word colonial in them. I was reading Jean Taillet, who's a really
Speaker:brilliant scholar, who's a member of the MMF. She's a lawyer. The Northwest is our mother.
Speaker:And she has a whole chapter about essentially the legal games that were played by speculators
Speaker:and by the government essentially to de-validate Metis and First Nations land rights. That's
Speaker:basically the old West Bank. If you just listen to Mohammed El-Kurd and see that there's that
Speaker:famous image of his sister confronting that settler who's just moved into her house and
Speaker:she's like, This is my house. Yeah, he's like, well, if I don't take your house, then someone
Speaker:else is going to take it. Yeah, I saw that. And it's like that is And that's all pre-2023,
Speaker:pre-2023 stuff, all of it, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's what really... It really chaps my ass
Speaker:that the MMF entered into an agreement with a, you know, imperialist settler, genociding
Speaker:state. What kind of goodies would we have ever gotten out of that at the expense of a bunch
Speaker:of Palestinian children who are orphaned and amputated and starving? That is, yeah, it
Speaker:makes me sick. So I'm really glad that Mo Crossman Serb and James Lavallee entered that resolution
Speaker:as soon as they did, because they saw what was happening. I saw what was happening. I didn't
Speaker:really think about asserting myself in the MMF about it, but I was so happy they did that.
Speaker:I didn't know it was coming. We weren't even real like the Two-Spirit Machif Local was a
Speaker:fairly new local at the time. And we were still sorting out all our relationships and ally
Speaker:alliances and whatnot. But no, I pounded the table for that resolution. I acted out I was,
Speaker:I made a very strong impression on the assembly and I think I've been paying consequences since.
Speaker:I've been bullied quite a lot at assemblies and outside of assemblies at other events.
Speaker:Some of them are like, you know, as surprisingly I was bullied just like last month at the Two-Spirit
Speaker:Sundance over. over what this woman thought of me and my conduct at the assemblies. So
Speaker:yeah, even though it's I've been dealing with some consequences about it, I'm so proud of
Speaker:James Laveley, Admo Crosby and Serb and the Bison local for bringing that resolution and
Speaker:creating awareness around it, even though the response was super misinformed. propagandized,
Speaker:sensationalized, and really misdirected in a way that I found extremely insulting to any
Speaker:Red River Métis or MMF citizen, whether they agreed with our resolution or not. And if I
Speaker:could just chime in there as well, sorry, Ben. was also... I was go to you. Yeah. I just
Speaker:also wanted to say that I was... inspired by the bison locals motion at that aga and wanted
Speaker:to put a motion through my own local at the aga and to my surprise i found out that the
Speaker:mmf has rules about if you put through a resolution and it is voted nil or no then it's kind like
Speaker:a blurry rule it's like you're not allowed to just repeatedly table the same thing in an
Speaker:aga which would be which would be a common sense rule, but that doesn't account for... don't
Speaker:know how you'd say it. That's not a direct democracy. You know what I mean? Like, if you're going
Speaker:to frame it as a fact of, if a crazy person is going to keep submitting the same resolution
Speaker:every year and we don't want to have our time wasted by it, of course you would want this
Speaker:rule. But if somebody has a legitimate concern about misconduct in our government and you
Speaker:want to bring it up just a second time, like we do about this issue, you're not allowed.
Speaker:And I think that represents a problem. Yeah. So I've been having conversations. There's
Speaker:been positive moments. with the leadership of the MMF as well. Mostly at the grassroots local
Speaker:level, like we are composed of locals in every region. And then the government level is regional.
Speaker:So we have vice presidents of each local and then we have regional executives of each region.
Speaker:So I actually have been talking with a few different people in different regions at different
Speaker:levels, and there's been lots of sort of, I don't know, beginnings, positive starts to,
Speaker:I think the issue is like, there's a real strong belief in the MMF that you have to, you can't
Speaker:actually assert yourself politically. until you've created lasting, very secure relationships.
Speaker:And that's that sort of the failsafe that that like they're really feeling comfortable with
Speaker:and that sort of wasn't really clear to me when we started trying to assert as a local and
Speaker:support Bison Locals. pro-Palestinian resolution. So yeah, if you're new to the MMF, it sounds
Speaker:like you got to do your time kind of thing, right? And to me, that makes a lot of sense,
Speaker:except that, I mean, we haven't been new, we've just been kind of driven apart, right? So
Speaker:some people... were driven together and some people managed somehow to be exceptional and
Speaker:create a government called the MMF. Those of us who didn't have the advantages or the timing
Speaker:or positionality required to become part of that very cohesive Red River Metis group perceives
Speaker:those of us who are coming into just like a cert because of an issue like being supportive
Speaker:of the Winnipeg police, right? We're not perceived in our own government as like valid with our
Speaker:voices, even if we have higher education, even if we've got great jobs, etc. We really
Speaker:need to like cultivate our own reputation before we can get any assembly to support us. And
Speaker:that would be really cool if we hadn't been torn apart by colonialism, right? But having
Speaker:that system really isn't fair to people who are youths and who are reconnecting and or
Speaker:just haven't been MMF-y, you know? It takes a certain kind of person to be really all up
Speaker:in the MMF, right? And they make sure that they're weeded out, those folks. There's a real culture
Speaker:of, I guess, making you and take shit, you know? I think, and I mean, consequence of
Speaker:that is the active participation in the MMF is pretty much exclusively old. And low.
Speaker:There's just, the numbers are real pathetic, you know? I think a lot of people listening,
Speaker:just the crowd that we draw, will... hear some similarities between the obstacles you're facing
Speaker:within the MMF and what they've experienced in the NDP and likely other political parties
Speaker:and union structures, where, you know, there's a few things at play aside from the Palestinian
Speaker:question, right? That concentration of power, the familiars, right? It's a bit cliquey. It's
Speaker:the same people in power maintaining power. Sometimes that's the reason for resistance
Speaker:to change. You added other layers, Sonia, that are unique to Indigenous groups. Well, not
Speaker:really unique to Indigenous groups, but the impact of colonialism that plays into how change
Speaker:is received within the structures that you're using. Let's talk about that a little bit because
Speaker:it'll help us go into the social work interventions. that you're weaving into your organizing to
Speaker:play into the process of reconciliation. Can you talk a little bit about how colonialism
Speaker:plays into this dynamic that you're talking about, this struggle to make change within
Speaker:the organization? Yeah. So it's a real tangled web. I don't have all the strands. sorted out
Speaker:by any means. I'm not a historian, you know, but I do know my own family's history and I
Speaker:know the history of many other families in the Red River Métis diaspora. And as a Two-Spirit
Speaker:Mitchif person, I've really observed that in the MMF we have our own reconciliation to attend
Speaker:to. and it's an inside job. It's meant to be in-house. I think that the MMF and all Red
Speaker:River Métis have been heavily influenced and even genetically shaped by Catholicism and
Speaker:Protestantism that would have trained our people, our grannies, grandpas, aunties, uncles, to
Speaker:scapegoat two-spirit people, to scapegoat disabled people. to scapegoat anyone who's different,
Speaker:neurodivergent people especially. So there's a real rift in our culture, I guess, where
Speaker:the programming we've had has been violently installed. And we have to get through this.
Speaker:And I think this is part of our growing pains as a Two-Spirit Mitchif local. I think we're
Speaker:being perceived as something we're not. We're often accused of being existentially threatening
Speaker:to the MMF when we bring resolutions. That's been a common accusation on the floor of our
Speaker:assemblies that we're going to destroy some fundamental part of the MMF by asking for a
Speaker:confirmation, confidence vote for uncontested candidates or I forget, yeah, I'm drawing a
Speaker:blank on other resolutions we've done, but these aren't harmful ideas that we're proposing,
Speaker:but they're being received as though they are, that we're, we just don't understand Metis
Speaker:culture or Metis politics or something. And it's a real shame because we're Métis people.
Speaker:We're children of the Red River settlement, most of us, and the Two-Spirit, Michif local,
Speaker:especially. We're all Two-Spirit. And we're being yelled at when we try to act smart.
Speaker:It's just real heartbreaking. I'm 46 years old and like when it happened the first time
Speaker:to me, I was completely wrecked. I never wanted to let that happen to any other person and
Speaker:my local especially. Two-Spirit people are magical. They're precious. They're sacred.
Speaker:I was like, I'm going to fucking quit this job. Secretary of this local, this is the
Speaker:best local in the MMF and I can't make it work. this. But then I was like, if I quit, someone
Speaker:else is gonna have to do this job and get shit on. I don't know what to do, right? So then
Speaker:I was like, I was in social work school, and I sort of just applied social work theory to
Speaker:it and created some interventions, mostly for myself and just like, hopefully, anyone else
Speaker:who felt the same things as me when I was attending assemblies. just a lot of maybe accommodations
Speaker:for sensory issues. The assembly is held at a racetrack and the physical location, the
Speaker:site itself is really hostile and somewhat inaccessible to neurodivergent people, people with sensory
Speaker:processing disorder. Yeah, there's bare light bulbs all over the place. There's no clear
Speaker:or direct sight lines to a stage. You have to look around pillars to see people. There's
Speaker:small screens everywhere on these pillars. But if you look up at them, there's a bare light
Speaker:bulb stabbing you in the eye no matter where you look. The scene is just so good. I remember
Speaker:you in Santiago talking about like, Neuro-spiciness and sensory hostility in an episode last year.
Speaker:Sorry to go off on a tangent, but just literally being in the physical assembly itself, it's
Speaker:incredibly challenging for people like myself. And I'm noticing that there's a real high incidence
Speaker:of sensory processing order amongst two-spirit people. But yeah, I don't know how these old
Speaker:folks do it every year and they talk about how hard it is every year. I think it's like this
Speaker:like suffering is good thing. I don't want to like insinuate anything about certain religions,
Speaker:but like it's sort of a real marathon of endurance. And I don't want to live my life like that
Speaker:just to attend a mandatory meeting for my people. But Yeah, I have to do that three days a year
Speaker:at bare minimum. We have two other AGAs in the MMF, is like Infinity Women's Secretariat.
Speaker:I'm going to go to that tomorrow at the same site. And our regional assembly, our own regional
Speaker:meeting is at that site too. So anyway, I have a real hate on how about that site. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, no wonder because on top of all of the kind of logistical accommodations that would
Speaker:benefit you folks. There's that added hostility that you're facing, right? That anxiety of
Speaker:going into battle, but with that complexity of it's your aunties, it's your grandparents.
Speaker:So let's talk about, because this is something I think all organizers could benefit from.
Speaker:can be very adversarial. So I'm going to learn from you here because these These are adversarial
Speaker:times and issues and from what you've described, spaces. But you don't want to be at odds with
Speaker:your community, right? No, not really. So how are you applying this? Like, we are not here
Speaker:to burn it down. This is this is not my approach to the NDP. This is totally different, right?
Speaker:This is working reconciliation into it. like, building community as well as holding people.
Speaker:while they go through this turmoil that you'll need to go through to get to the other side?
Speaker:Yeah. No, that's a real question. And yeah, when it happened, when I got jeered at and
Speaker:pointed at and laughed at and like even verbally threatened for supporting a resolution, yeah,
Speaker:I was really fucked up over it. It was like I looked around and I realized it was, I'm
Speaker:not in touch with my parents. I'm not in touch with old people in my family. And I realized
Speaker:like this is like my elders around me trying to make me feel really shitty. And I just
Speaker:didn't know what to do. So I went and cried. And then I realized like. Yeah, social cohesion
Speaker:is really important and social change is really important and we're really trying to do both
Speaker:of those things and that's the the goal of social work in and of itself. So yeah, some of the
Speaker:examples we've come up with as a local has been to always have a table full of people, of delegates,
Speaker:so that no one has to sit alone. I found myself alone at a few tables during my first year
Speaker:or two. And it was devastating, not because no one showed up for me, but because people
Speaker:picked on me. Like I could have been alone all weekend over and over, but it was just that
Speaker:people were bullying, you know? So I was like, I don't want to go to meetings unless there's
Speaker:at least five other people, you know? Like if it's a big meeting, it has to be like, we
Speaker:have to full force show up. It just can't work for me. I'm actually injured by this to my
Speaker:detriment. And the local showed up, like the Two-Spirit people, I have to say, we're all
Speaker:over capacity. We're all working way beyond our means. We're doing more free work than,
Speaker:I don't know, like it's wild how hard we're working. to just like maintain a world and
Speaker:a life for ourselves and each other. But yeah, they're showing up when they're required to
Speaker:show up to mandatory meetings with me and it means the world. it's become something where
Speaker:even though I know it's gonna be a very hard weekend and old folks are gonna be mean to
Speaker:me and I'll get my feelings hurt even and yeah, just. have unpleasant times. There's a solid
Speaker:group of people who will hear my stories about it. They'll believe me, they'll remember,
Speaker:they'll check in about it. They'll reference it years later. They'll talk about cycles of
Speaker:abuse that they also notice. So yeah, it's a real soft landing place. And it's because
Speaker:I asked for exactly that. I just said, I need a soft landing place. I need a stronghold.
Speaker:If we're gonna do this kind of work in this government, we need each other. So yeah,
Speaker:we have a full table at every meeting now. We also have a monthly arts activity that we do
Speaker:collectively that we're making to enter into the MMFs. silent auction at the assembly. The
Speaker:silent auction is insane. It's like one of the best silent auctions you could imagine probably.
Speaker:So we're going to have this enormous collaborative art project in the auction this year, which
Speaker:is like a landscape in the prairie. There's a storm in the distance. There's a herd of
Speaker:bison stamping, stampeding towards the storm, of course. and each bison is decorated by a
Speaker:different person or group to express their spirit within the MMF. And yeah, another intervention,
Speaker:another social work intervention that we've, our youth rep came up with was just to bring
Speaker:like a canopy tent to set up in the parking lot of the assembly so that we have a two-spirit
Speaker:respite site. on our own turf, right? Like in a parking lot with someone's car. I have
Speaker:a little tailgate in the back. I have a little hibachi, right? Maybe a speaker, lawn chairs.
Speaker:I want to come play. Yeah, right? We're really trying to just like, be like, well, if you're
Speaker:going to be like that, we're going to have to bring a few things, you know? Well, if you're
Speaker:going to be like that, we're going to have to like show off in a certain way. And, and Yeah,
Speaker:it's it's feeling really good. So, yeah. No wonder you want to organize with these folks,
Speaker:Ben. Well, I mean, this is I'm saying is like to me, I mean, it's about this has been a bit
Speaker:of a journey of finding finding the nation. Right. So the MNO in Ontario was like, we are
Speaker:the nation. And I tried to find the nation in the MNO. I found like consultant speak and
Speaker:a complete lack of solidarity. I mean, if you even Google on their website, like the statement
Speaker:that they made in response to the Wetsuit, and there's just like no interest in Indigenous
Speaker:kinship, in Indigenous solidarity, in community building around struggle and resistance amid
Speaker:this incredibly hostile settler colonial, you know, state structure. You know, right now
Speaker:the government, just, I just was working on a memo about like the Kearney energy policy.
Speaker:it's like, essentially the vision for the future of Canada by the settler state is this archipelago
Speaker:of remote mega projects in the far North manned by man camps who are going to keep fucking
Speaker:murdering and kidnapping indigenous women. Of course that's never talked about. And the people
Speaker:that they're, they're citing to enabling that. And this was brought up at the counter summit
Speaker:on Monday, Kenna House, what's her last name? Indigenous activist. Oh, Yeah. I mean, she
Speaker:was just saying, there are people that are selling the rest of us all out. I'm like,
Speaker:so... Is this what the okay, so this takes me to actually the last point about the MNO that
Speaker:I wanted to make, which is what to me was the final straw. And what led me to write this
Speaker:letter seeking to withdraw my citizenship, which is the MNO just had very GA. And it was moved
Speaker:to Toronto from Thunder Bay. And it was moved to Toronto from Thunder Bay because as we will
Speaker:remember, there were catastrophic wildfires in in Western Ontario and in Manitoba. And
Speaker:all of the hotels in Thunder Bay were needed for essentially refugees displaced by the fires.
Speaker:And so, yeah, so the AGA was displaced to Toronto. And I mean, by this point, like, I have no
Speaker:interest in like going and having like, consultant speak repeated at me about like all the wonderful
Speaker:things that are being done. So I wasn't interested in going to the AGA, but I see on Twitter someone
Speaker:pointed out that they listed their sponsors and one of the sponsors is this company called
Speaker:TC Energy, formerly known as TransCanada Energy and they're effusively thanking TC Energy for
Speaker:supporting this event. TC Energy is the company behind the Trans Mountain Pipeline. It's the
Speaker:company behind the Keystone XL Pipeline. TC Energy worked directly with notorious anti-Indigenous
Speaker:bigot, Kristi Noem, to figure out how to criminalize land and water defenders. And the MNO is fucking
Speaker:redwashing them. And I was like, I can't be part of this. This is not something that I
Speaker:can be a part of. And on top of that, after, two years of trying to find community that,
Speaker:you know, maybe there's some, you know, younger Métis that are from the MNO that are showing
Speaker:up to things. finding nobody, where I've found people that show up for this cause is, is,
Speaker:you these folks that are kind of organizing around the MMF. And I mean, I this is what's
Speaker:important to remember is that the nation is not the people that the like Canadian government
Speaker:pats on the head and recognizes as the leaders of the nation. The nation is, is the people,
Speaker:the nation is like where the spirit is that is carrying on the legacy of our ancestors.
Speaker:and that is gonna set the agenda for the future. And I mean, the sort of the direction that
Speaker:these orgs are on right now is one that is not, they're not being ancestors that anyone is
Speaker:gonna take any pride in identifying with. Like, and this is why young people aren't showing
Speaker:up, right? But young people are showing up for the communities that people like Sonya are
Speaker:creating. young people are resonating with like James Lavallee and Mo when they get up to say
Speaker:like, should be in solidarity with Palestine. And I mean, I think that that's just it is
Speaker:that like, you know, in a way the future of the Métis Nation is ours to make, right? Yeah,
Speaker:we're doing it. We are. Yeah, I'm super excited about our evening of dinner movie discussion.
Speaker:on October 17th. Right, so let's introduce that properly. So yeah, so the next MMF annual
Speaker:general assembly or annual general meeting. National assembly. National assembly is in
Speaker:October, on October like 16th, 17th, 18th, I think. That's right. And we're, Métis for
Speaker:Palestine are doing a little counter programming event on the Saturday. You're supposed to
Speaker:call it, what is it called? Supplementary programming. Supplementary. Less confrontational. We're
Speaker:not enemies. We're barely adversaries. We're supplementing. So Métis for Palestine is doing
Speaker:some supplementary programming. We are going to be screening a Palestinian documentary called
Speaker:The Foragers and serving dinner. and hosting a discussion with some elders. And the purpose
Speaker:of this is to raise money for those affected by the settler university that the MMF has
Speaker:partnered with. And so there are a number of Bedouin communities that have been affected
Speaker:and we'll have the details on that for you to maybe share when you drop the episode. But
Speaker:we're hoping to raise some money to send to that. at least hopefully repair some of the
Speaker:harm. Well, that's one way to supplement it. Yeah, trying to just, I mean, yeah, I've
Speaker:always wanted to kind of tear it down, but the more I age, thank goodness, I'm aging. The
Speaker:more I realize, yeah, we really need to build around, we need to build in spite of We need
Speaker:to build above, below, retrofit. All sorts of structures need to be in place and strong
Speaker:for whatever change is coming, right? Whether we're working towards social change or social
Speaker:cohesion, we deserve to be a strong group of people and citizens in a government. So that's
Speaker:really the goal. is to strengthen ourselves as people in kinship and prepare for whatever
Speaker:is to come, you know? Yeah, I think folks listening can understand the risks that come with fracturing
Speaker:the MMF, considering the position. You know, I don't, I kind of felt like we were I think
Speaker:the perception is that we're just going to wreck the MMF, but you know, every time we show
Speaker:up, I feel like people act better, people in our, you know, elected positions, they think
Speaker:about what we'll think a little more. They think a little bit about what we'll say a little
Speaker:more. And I think that's positive, whether they perceive it that way or not, you know. Any
Speaker:predictions? What we saw with the NDP was all sorts of shenanigans to prevent the question
Speaker:of Palestine to come to the floor, right? Whether it was protecting the powerful's position,
Speaker:managing the image of the party, or like you say, avoiding any fracture, right? Let's not
Speaker:ask a question if we don't know the answer. Let's not expose any splits within the group
Speaker:that we need to seem strong because we have enemies outside of us that we do have to be
Speaker:adversarial against, perhaps. And maybe someone can argue that away. But no, it's true. Do
Speaker:we have any predictions now that it's a few years later how the floor might respond to
Speaker:another intervention on behalf of Palestine? How do you think the members will respond and
Speaker:those that perhaps have something to lose? Okay, my prediction is that it's a script.
Speaker:It's a playbook. We're off, no matter what we propose, whether it's Palestine related
Speaker:or not, really, the playbook seems to be that we're accused of trying to pull something over
Speaker:on our government. We're implying that there's something wrong and there really isn't anything
Speaker:wrong, how dare we. We're on a particular kind of witch hunt but we can't really figure out
Speaker:who the witch would be and we are an existential threat to the MMF and the Métis culture and
Speaker:David Chartrand would never let us do that. That's really how, like kind of how it goes
Speaker:when we attempt to assert. And yeah, if we brought up Palestine again, it would be the same thing,
Speaker:I think, maybe more laughing and more, more insinuations that we're trying to like bring
Speaker:in. things that don't concern us, distract us from the real issues. Trying to just get attention,
Speaker:I think we've been accused of that quite often. Trying to make a name for ourselves. So it's
Speaker:a lot of just like saying things to us that really aren't about the resolution at all,
Speaker:really aren't about the matter of Palestine. And I firmly believe it's because no one has
Speaker:any idea. that this is a real genocide. They really don't want to research enough to find
Speaker:out and have to act in a certain way. I guess there's just this feeling of like, if I don't
Speaker:pay attention to it, doesn't concern me and I'm not at fault for letting it happen or whatever.
Speaker:It's really hard because I feel like if only people knew they would understand and then
Speaker:they'd be different and they're just like, don't do that to us, you know? I've heard many of
Speaker:the same arguments within other spaces. The push and pull is very similar. Does anybody
Speaker:else want to opine on what they think they'll experience in October? I mean, I think in both
Speaker:cases, like the MMF and the NDP, like whether or not you decide that, you know, they're right
Speaker:and you should sit down and like not do anything that might be construed as hurting the institution
Speaker:depends on ultimately whether you have faith that the institution as it is, is capable of
Speaker:fulfilling the promises. that it's implicitly making, right? And I mean, in my case, I've
Speaker:long since lost that confidence in the NDP. don't know enough about the, I mean, I've
Speaker:obviously completely lost any confidence in the MNL as being representative of anything
Speaker:or capable of representing anything that I have any interest in being part of. I mean, again,
Speaker:I found comrades here that to me are the nation. And I'll be, I wanna help support figuring
Speaker:out how to find an institutional home for us, however I can. But I don't know enough to
Speaker:make any predictions. I mean, it is true that It's 2020, October 2026 is different from
Speaker:2024. mean, I am a person with like a political science PhD who's way too online. So I'm very
Speaker:aware of what's, what was happening in 2024. But, you people that are mainly consuming
Speaker:international news through like the CBC or global or whatever, or, you know, one of those.
Speaker:Yeah, those post-media newspapers, I can understand how circuit 2024, they would have no idea.
Speaker:It's a little bit harder to deny it now. And I think that's reflected in shifting general
Speaker:public opinion. And so I wonder if that- to the point that made about like why it's- bad
Speaker:to have a categorical block on bringing back repeated resolutions. It's like, okay, well,
Speaker:maybe the resolution didn't change, but the world does. And maybe the change in the world
Speaker:means that this resolution calling for solidarity with Palestine is appropriate now. And it's
Speaker:not actually the same because it's speaking to a different situation and to a different
Speaker:consciousness, right? Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah, and I mean, it's not as though
Speaker:Israel isn't anticipating that building awareness. They're really churning out the propaganda
Speaker:and actually exploiting First Nations elders. And I didn't, I don't know if there were any
Speaker:Red River Métis elders in that video, but there's this, I think she's a Fétis, even fake Métis.
Speaker:Her name's Crystal Lavallee, and she's been making media. uh, in support of, uh, Israel,
Speaker:uh, by flying elders out to, uh, Israel and showing them how wonderful things are and how
Speaker:much our elders have in common with their elders who also were in, like, concentration camps
Speaker:and special schools or science experiments or whatever. I love that there's this like sense
Speaker:of shared history, but like they really shouldn't be co-opting that to erase the genocide that
Speaker:they're committing on a bunch of Palestinians on the other side of fucking wall, you know?
Speaker:It makes me curious. What a mindfuck to use the Holocaust and compare to residential schools
Speaker:to bond while you massacre. Indigenous you like you're using trauma bonding to get our people
Speaker:to turn our backs on Palestinian children and their fucking amputated families living in
Speaker:tents in puddles, starving and getting shot up for trying to collect food from a truck.
Speaker:Fuck off. Yeah, I mean, Crystal Laveley. And so, I mean, she's been interviewed by honest
Speaker:reporting Canada where she is identified as First Nations because she doesn't know the
Speaker:fucking difference. And I mean, I think she comes out of, so on her own website, she says
Speaker:that she like discovered her Métis identity later in life. And it's quite clear that she
Speaker:comes out of the sort of Christian Zionist evangelical movement, which is I think a common thread
Speaker:that you'll find in a lot of the indigenous folks that get trotted out, know, for example,
Speaker:the walk for Israel, there's been a lot of inroads into First Nations communities by like, you
Speaker:know, the Mormons and by various other evangelical Christian sects that are again, like they're
Speaker:like, they prey on, they prey on trauma. And they are a death cult by definition, they are
Speaker:a death cult. And yeah, they're co-opting Indigenous groups throughout Canada. I hear that there
Speaker:are Israeli flags being flown on Peguis for First Nations. that is one of our... Peguis
Speaker:is one of the most Metis First Nations. We have so many cousins in that nation because
Speaker:they're from Selkirk, right? it's a real difficult situation and Israel's spending money on us
Speaker:to bring a lot of Indigenous folks into Zionism. The way they brought their own youth into Zionism,
Speaker:right? All sorts of Jews around the world as youth are flown to Israel and given a full
Speaker:orientation, I guess, or I don't know, assimilation, programming, not sure, but like Yeah, I don't
Speaker:want our people to be pulled into that. That's wild, you know? To illustrate that point, there's
Speaker:another guy named Ryan Bellarose who's out of a Metis community in Alberta. And I think I
Speaker:don't exactly know how he came into this role, but he's literally on staff with Pené-Breath.
Speaker:He is also one of those ones that you can find him giving like lectures to the whitest people
Speaker:in the universe about. you know, how indigenous they are and you know, whatever. He, I actually,
Speaker:I actually, he doesn't know that we've met, but I've met him because I was on a, I was
Speaker:on a Marshall shift at the University of Toronto, Palestine Solidarity Encampment at like two
Speaker:in the morning, one night. And the TAFSA career, like those hardcore, like really sketchy. Zionists,
Speaker:they showed up at two in the morning with a giant speaker system and blasted Oh Canada
Speaker:right outside of the section of the camp where there was some Indigenous comrades were keeping,
Speaker:some First Nations comrades were keeping a sacred fire. Earlier that day, Ryan was in that
Speaker:group. He'd been flown to Toronto to give like a lecture, like a marijuana scheme. event.
Speaker:Again, Merw Weinstein is the erstwhile head of the Jewish Defense League, which is the
Speaker:paramilitary wing of the Kahanachai party, which is listed as a terrorist organization by the
Speaker:government of Canada, but it doesn't matter because he's very likely a police informant.
Speaker:So he is untouchable. Anyway, Ryan Feller-Rose keeps his company. It's a whole other episode.
Speaker:And earlier in the day, during the day, he showed up. with a little like band of counter
Speaker:protesters and he literally yelled in the face of a residential school survivor that she was
Speaker:a pretendee. And I mean, these are the people that in the complete silence about this issue
Speaker:from our official governments are getting these platforms and are being allowed to speak on
Speaker:behalf of all of us. And it makes me absolutely sick because it's such transparent manipulation
Speaker:and it's so cynical. There is a lot of stake at stake with the organizing that you're doing
Speaker:and the pushes for change, you know, from preventing the redwashing to reconciliation and building
Speaker:back community. Yes, rebuilding from an apocalypse. Yes. Yeah, I hope you don't personally feel
Speaker:all those pressures. I do. I do actually. That's rough. Yeah, the nature of my neurodivergence
Speaker:is that I am a systemic thinker and I do hold layer upon layer upon layer upon layer of dialectical
Speaker:realities that are not easy to contain. There's tension that exists within every dialectical
Speaker:reality that exists. So the reality I'm holding in this regard is that the MMF is a safe place
Speaker:for me. and the MMF doesn't make me feel safe because of how they act when I bring up safety
Speaker:issues, when I bring up issues of transparency and confidence and due process. yeah, there's
Speaker:a lot of, a lot of, yeah, my whole body's. in this, I'm made out of the Red River settlement.
Speaker:My blood, bones, and spirit is made out of the literal dirt and water of Lake Winnipeg,
Speaker:Red River, Sinelwine River. And yeah, I take this really seriously. I grew up reading about
Speaker:children in Nazi Germany watching other children be... I lived through child abuse. I lived
Speaker:through all sorts of atrocities myself. I score like 100 % on adverse childhood experiences.
Speaker:I understand the effect of trauma on the body. And I know that right now I'm actually experiencing
Speaker:vicarious trauma as a result of what Israel's doing. because they show us, they film it
Speaker:themselves and put it on display for the rest of us. So yeah, I feel like my heart's pounding
Speaker:right now just describing that reality. And that's only one of the realities that really
Speaker:I have to manage in order to be a leader in this government right now. That's a heavy load.
Speaker:I do then rest on the fact that you've created a community within your community and you're
Speaker:doing your darndest to expand that and show folks a different model of organizing within
Speaker:these typically confrontational spaces. And I am neurodivergent myself and even I'm starting
Speaker:to just really appreciate that weight. that battle and when I make those comparisons. even
Speaker:just that ability, right? Like we have a huge, like there's an ability that really hasn't
Speaker:been recognized until recently for millennia, right? Like we've been kind of pushed into
Speaker:like these margins as, you know, different people or whatever. So we know how that feels. We
Speaker:know how that feels in the home. We know how that feels and the organizations we're a part
Speaker:of. We know how Palestinian children feel. We know how Palestinian people outside of Palestine
Speaker:feel. Red River Métis have been through a version of this genocide. Imagine if instead of being
Speaker:scattered across Turtle Island as we had been done, if all of us had been herded onto the
Speaker:shores of Hudson's Bay and kept there for how many generations? It's eight now, eight generations
Speaker:of Palestinians in Gaza Strip. Hudson's Bay, imagine if we'd all been just herded over there
Speaker:and given, you know, reserve style types of accommodations. Same thing. Which again, our
Speaker:physicians' cousins were, right? They were. They have their own Gaza strips, right? And
Speaker:the Palestinians have faced the displacement and the fracturing, right? The diaspora is
Speaker:vast. about as long as we have. like, you know, it started in the early 1900s in earnest,
Speaker:you know, the Red River settlement and the Israeli project really were kind of siblings
Speaker:almost, right? And it scares me that like a whole community of genocide survivors or what
Speaker:they claim themselves to be have become this, right? And they're trying to suck us into it
Speaker:too. Like that. Um. Any parting words, think? Yeah, to your fellow Métis or to the wider
Speaker:audience, some settlers in the audience. Yeah, like just to speak to the soft landing place
Speaker:that we want to create on October 17th, the Saturday evening of our assembly this year,
Speaker:we'll be meeting at the Métis Club for dinner, movie discussion and we're going to be fundraising
Speaker:with like door door sales donations and we're also creating a little bit of a intergenerate
Speaker:or inter nation initiative called bead for palestine i don't know if we're stealing that name it
Speaker:seems like pretty obvious like i can't imagine someone else hasn't come up with it but like
Speaker:someone somewhere You know, I don't think they're going to mind probably, but like we're going
Speaker:to be for Palestine and invite a bunch of other Indigenous peoples to do it with us. Yeah.
Speaker:guys, I'm so jealous. I've never wanted to go to a convention or general meeting so bad in
Speaker:my life, right? I wish I could witness. Well, you're not Métis, so you're not invited. Sorry.
Speaker:My cousin got a card. could probably come as an observer, but there's a process for that.
Speaker:And I don't know if you've missed the deadline, but if you ever want to, you could look into
Speaker:it for sure. Yeah, I could not afford to travel at the moment anyway, but I do appreciate the
Speaker:welcoming nature. You're just making it sound like, you going into an NDP convention, there's
Speaker:almost nothing to look forward to at all, especially after you've actually been to one race, all
Speaker:going into battle vibes, at least for folks that are trying to initiate change. So to think
Speaker:that there's somebody that's taking so much into consideration, right, not just the end
Speaker:goal that might be issue related, reform related, but a real holistic all around approach to
Speaker:organizing in such a space. Yes, I've learned a lot. I appreciate that, Sanya. Thank you.
Speaker:Ben, do you have any last words for the audience? I think that the point I'd like to sort of
Speaker:land on is, and I think I say this in the letter, that there is, I think, a real effort happening
Speaker:both on the part of the Canadian government and on the part of the Zionist movement to
Speaker:colonize indigeneity itself, right? And this is what's going on with essentially the like
Speaker:intense effort to tokenize certain collaborationist indigenous folks in Canada to like sign off
Speaker:on this or that. mining project. And it's exactly what's going on in the effort to get Indigenous
Speaker:folks and Metis folks to sign off on the claim that Zionism is an Indigenous and not a colonial
Speaker:movement. And the plausibility of that argument rests on, I think, a flawed way of thinking
Speaker:about Indigeneity. It's the colonizers way of thinking about indigeneity and for not growing
Speaker:up in community, the ways that I have found to reconnect with this stuff and to reconnect
Speaker:with my past has been to just get into the books, right? I mean, I think this is why I went and
Speaker:got my PhD and I've studied again, the development of colonial strategies for the management of
Speaker:indigenous peoples. And there was this idea where they wanted to define indigenous people
Speaker:through the things that are least threatening about them, right? So like the Zulu, you know,
Speaker:have this or that shield and spear and they have this or that dignity and they have this
Speaker:or that like chief tribal structure. And if they're ever complaining about exploitation,
Speaker:that doesn't make sense because their culture shouldn't understand exploitation. And this
Speaker:is the way that the colonizer loves to define indigenous peoples in terms of these like,
Speaker:idealized characteristics, right? So the colonizers notion of the Metis really wants to foreground
Speaker:like our material arts, like, you know, like things that like make us into like the mascot
Speaker:version of the Metis. And you see Crystal Lavely acting that out, like she'll give these presentations
Speaker:to Honest Reporting Canada wearing the Saint-Sothre-Fleche, like the Metis sash, right? And like, that's
Speaker:what it means to be indigenous is these like signifiers. And it's just like, these are
Speaker:signifiers that you grew out of this particular land in this particular place. And you have
Speaker:this fundamental claim to it that that, you know, is tied to that. And I mean, that's a
Speaker:notion that comes from ancient Greece. It's like a Western, like culture thing. It's based
Speaker:in like Yeah, like the idea that Athenians sprung from the soil and whatever, and they called
Speaker:that autochtony. It's a Greek word. And this is the notion of indigeneity that Zionists
Speaker:are using to make a claim to indigeneity in Israel that completely ignores thousands of
Speaker:years of history and actually concrete relations with the land. And reality. Like concrete reality.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. Most importantly, a relation to colonialism. And this is my point, is that
Speaker:fundamentally what makes, you know, what makes anyone or any group indigenous, indigenous,
Speaker:indigeneity arises in terms of colonialism. If there was no colonialism, the like, Métis,
Speaker:you know, or whatever, Mohawk wouldn't be indigenous, they would just be Mohawk. The like... Lakota
Speaker:wouldn't be indigenous, they would just be Lakota in the way that the French are just French.
Speaker:They're not an indigenous people, right? The Quebecois are not an indigenous people, right?
Speaker:And so you can't be an indigenous people if you're an expressly colonial movement, which
Speaker:is what Zionism is. And that's not to say that there are no Jewish people in Palestine who
Speaker:are indigenous. There are vibrant Jewish communities in Palestine under the British colonial domination
Speaker:that were a big part of navigating colonialism in that era. A lot of them have put their
Speaker:indigeneity aside to join the colonizer struggle. But to me, this is what's really kind of important
Speaker:to recognize is that there are... real stakes to this and and you know it is the deepest
Speaker:kind of colonialism that you can imagine to allow the colonizer to colonize indigeneity
Speaker:itself you know and that's i think what's happening right now so that's my yeah yeah absolutely
Speaker:statement i'm so disgusted about how they're attempting to use us and other other indigenous
Speaker:nations it's uh yeah i don't even It feels such a violation on a violation. It boggles
Speaker:the mind how rough people can treat you. It's bizarre. I wish you two the best of luck. Well,
Speaker:three, we lost Ann on low battery. But I wish you all the best of luck in your upcoming.
Speaker:general meeting, national assembly, sorry. Thank you. If folks want to go ahead. Yeah, I have
Speaker:one last last word, which is like, anyway, like if this is resonating with you, if you're if
Speaker:you're a Red River Métis person and you're hearing this and it's resonating with you, please do
Speaker:reach out because again, like this is I mean, this is why we're doing it right is to is to,
Speaker:you know, create a space for us to talk to each other about this stuff. Great. So if you heard
Speaker:that and it does resonate, go to the show notes in the call to action. I will have contact
Speaker:information so that you can reach out and start organizing within the MMF. Thank you both for
Speaker:your time. Thank you. That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank
Speaker:you for joining us. Also, a very big thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Helu-Quintero.
Speaker:Blueprints of Disruption is an independent production operated cooperatively. You can follow us on
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