Episode 46

full
Published on:

7th May 2023

Candid Candidate: Interview with Chloe Brown

In a crowded field of candidates for Toronto Mayor, Chloe Brown’s grassroots campaign stands out as one of the most unique. 

Chloe ran an impressive campaign last October finishing 3rd with an incredibly efficient dollar-to-vote ratio of only $0.20. 

In this interview, Jessa McLean and Santiago Helou Quintero talk to Chloe about her experience as a Policy Analyst, how this campaign is different from last time, her platform and whether is she running to win. 

Transcript
[Jessa]:

Good morning, Chloe. Thank you for joining us at Blueprints. Why don't you introduce

[Jessa]:

yourself again, even though we just did that.

[Chloe Brown]:

My name is Chloe Brown. I am a 32 year old policy analyst living in the

[Chloe Brown]:

City of Toronto. And yeah, I'm running for mayor because I'm sick and tired

[Chloe Brown]:

of being sick and tired. I've started at City Hall as an unpaid intern in

[Chloe Brown]:

2014. And as we look to 2024, it's been 10 years since the housing crisis,

[Chloe Brown]:

10 years since the unpaid intern crisis. And I want solutions now. So that's

[Chloe Brown]:

really who I am and it really defines why I do this because I love Toronto.

[Chloe Brown]:

There's a million places I could be, but I choose to be here because of the

[Chloe Brown]:

value of being around the world in one city.

[Jessa]:

This isn't your first go at Toronto Mayor, is it? Like you talked about this being

[Jessa]:

deja vu. We're not that far out from a really grueling campaign, which, I'll be

[Jessa]:

fair, we did

[Chloe Brown]:

Thank

[Jessa]:

a

[Chloe Brown]:

you.

[Jessa]:

short special on our mayoral prospects, and we overlooked your campaign in our discussions,

[Jessa]:

and our audience made sure to check us on that. One of the things that impressed

[Jessa]:

them the most about your pre- Yeah, no, they- They let us have it when we need

[Jessa]:

to. One of the things that impressed them about your campaign was the amount of

[Jessa]:

votes you were able to secure with a modest budget, right? It's not easy for grassroots

[Jessa]:

to raise funds. There's no judgment there, but what you were able to do with those

[Jessa]:

funds, you came in third place.

[Chloe Brown]:

Thank you.

[Jessa]:

Are you building on that? Like, did that energize you? Were you hopeful with your

[Jessa]:

performance, your results?

[Chloe Brown]:

To be honest, yeah, it was really exciting to see how it turned out for a dollar

[Chloe Brown]:

amount. I think in the end, it came up to 20 cents per vote based on the entirety

[Chloe Brown]:

of the budget. So yeah, it's very unheard of in the world of political science

[Chloe Brown]:

and public administration to get such a big turnout. But In the scale of

[Chloe Brown]:

my career, it's like I've always worked for non-profits, schools. I've worked

[Chloe Brown]:

with marginalized people. You often get a small budget to make huge impact

[Chloe Brown]:

with. So that's why the message was directly to the working class, because

[Chloe Brown]:

that's who I serve as a public administrator. I've helped people move from

[Chloe Brown]:

EI to Ontario Works to ODSP. I've helped them move through a variety of

[Chloe Brown]:

government systems in order for them to maintain a job. maintain their education.

[Chloe Brown]:

And this is where I was able to really target the largest amount of users,

[Chloe Brown]:

because the people that are being affected by the lack of local democracy isn't

[Chloe Brown]:

the executives, the senior managers, it's the workers. And we see this, I see this

[Chloe Brown]:

as a policy analyst, when you look at the wage discrepancy between the executive

[Chloe Brown]:

who's the corporate strategist and then the operator who actually works the

[Chloe Brown]:

machine. And this... imbalance really speaks to me from not just a political

[Chloe Brown]:

lens, but it speaks to me as a worker. I'm someone who plugs in every day

[Chloe Brown]:

at an eight hour a day job. And while I'm comfortable earning like that $66,000

[Chloe Brown]:

on paper, it's like by the time my bills come out, my student loans, all these

[Chloe Brown]:

other things, it's like, am I really making $66,000? And that's really the

[Chloe Brown]:

underlying fear that all of us universally are feeling right now. So speaking

[Chloe Brown]:

to universal feelings as opposed to political identity is what I do at my job

[Chloe Brown]:

and that's what made me successful. So yeah, I'm building off of it, but I'm also

[Chloe Brown]:

not in the way that, yeah, I'm still speaking to the working class. That hasn't

[Chloe Brown]:

changed and it shouldn't change because that is who's deeply affected by this

[Chloe Brown]:

lack of leadership. That explains it.

[Jessa]:

You say you were... yeah, no, we feel that. You talked about being sick of being

[Jessa]:

sick of it, right? There's a lot of folks in the city of Toronto just completely

[Jessa]:

exasperated, not just by council, but this campaign already.

[Chloe Brown]:

Mm-hmm.

[Jessa]:

A lot of stuff being thrown around that's really not relevant, a lot of fear-mongering

[Jessa]:

being used by your opponents. What's it like wading into it? It seems, feels like

[Jessa]:

a different campaign this time around.

[Chloe Brown]:

Thank you.

[Jessa]:

Are you feeling that?

[Chloe Brown]:

No. I know that sounds strange,

[Jessa]:

This

[Chloe Brown]:

but...

[Jessa]:

feels exactly like, did you ever stop campaigning then?

[Chloe Brown]:

No, and that's where people kind of underestimate my experience in local politics.

[Chloe Brown]:

I started with Pam McConnell. And at the time in 2014, Pam McConnell was

[Chloe Brown]:

overseeing the Pan Am games, the Regent Park development, the Union Station

[Chloe Brown]:

revitalization, the Burkese Park revitalization with the dog fountain. So it's

[Chloe Brown]:

like, I was in city council for months watching the current cast of candidates

[Chloe Brown]:

do their thing. And... That's why I'm not intimidated by them. I used to

[Chloe Brown]:

do research to provide recommendations to them about youth issues when I was a youth.

[Chloe Brown]:

And I've deputed in front of them. I've organized workshops for them to

[Chloe Brown]:

talk to youth. I've put my blood, sweat, and tears into youth equity during my

[Chloe Brown]:

20s only to become an adult. And this same cast of clowns only have consensus

[Chloe Brown]:

on advancing poverty. They've done nothing to reduce it. They've only advanced

[Chloe Brown]:

it. And that's why I can... really be on this stage and not really be intimidated

[Chloe Brown]:

by their titles or anything that they do because I've seen them work and they

[Chloe Brown]:

have no work product to show for it. Like respectfully, Josh Matlow's been

[Chloe Brown]:

at council since 2010. What is he going to do differently that he wasn't doing

[Chloe Brown]:

now? And this is where I question any of them because when the time for courage

[Chloe Brown]:

showed itself, when John Toy... ran again for a third time despite saying he

[Chloe Brown]:

would only run twice. All of them were very comfortable to maintain their

[Chloe Brown]:

path, which was to run for council, to continue at their job, whatever it was.

[Chloe Brown]:

And now that John is gone, all of a sudden they have courage. And that shows

[Chloe Brown]:

me that all of them were comfortable with the status quo. No matter what left or

[Chloe Brown]:

right side they claim, they were all very comfortable with John. providing them

[Chloe Brown]:

a stage for their theatrics, because that's exactly what happens at City

[Chloe Brown]:

Council. And yeah, that's why I'm running, because to be honest, like, is

[Chloe Brown]:

their job even real? They have no performance metrics.

[Jessa]:

Hehehe

[Chloe Brown]:

They run on the basis of a popularity contest, and then they get into their job,

[Chloe Brown]:

and they don't know the first thing about democratic governance, which is

[Chloe Brown]:

everyone needs to be served, not just the people who lined your pocket during

[Chloe Brown]:

the campaign. It's even the people who do not like you. It's the people you're

[Chloe Brown]:

afraid of that you have to still make fair policy for. And if you don't have

[Chloe Brown]:

the stomach or the cholesterol for it, find a different job. Go to the private

[Chloe Brown]:

sector. And that's really what I'm calling them out for because no one is

[Chloe Brown]:

holding them hostage to being a city counselor, to being mayor. Find a different

[Chloe Brown]:

job because it's really unfair to the public that you continue to lie to them

[Chloe Brown]:

and mislead them based on their fears. And that's what they've been doing for

[Chloe Brown]:

the last decade. Oh, the criminals of social housing. Oh, the youth. It's this,

[Chloe Brown]:

it's that. It's never their lack of leadership. It's always someone else's fault

[Chloe Brown]:

that the city is decaying. But they chose leadership roles. Make it make sense.

[Jessa]:

No, it makes no sense. We're just as frustrated with what we've seen for generations.

[Jessa]:

And I think you're certainly not alone. I see a lot of sentiment around that same frustration

[Jessa]:

you described. And if you've had your shot, it's time to step out. You know, so for

[Jessa]:

anybody, there's a few frontrunners there, quite a few, that have had their time

[Jessa]:

in the sun and done nothing terribly spectacular. So you're certainly... strengthening

[Jessa]:

that argument for folks. People really are looking for something different and for

[Jessa]:

quite a while I would say that is your campaign. I want to ask you though about the

[Jessa]:

entrance of Olivia Chow. So she hasn't been on City Council right you can't perhaps

[Jessa]:

say those same things and my impression is that most progressives will recognize that

[Jessa]:

name. How did that make you feel when she put her hat in the race a little late in

[Jessa]:

the game? Was it a shock?

[Chloe Brown]:

No.

[Jessa]:

Did it make you shift your campaign in any way?

[Chloe Brown]:

No, because the NDP is a part of the establishment. There's champagne liberals,

[Chloe Brown]:

champagne socialists. The right wing is just like, let's go back to the days

[Chloe Brown]:

of slavery and feudalism because that was tight. And they're on their own island

[Chloe Brown]:

and it's just like, I let them stay out there in the fantasy. But when it

[Chloe Brown]:

comes to progress and the left, it's like, as a racialized person, please define

[Chloe Brown]:

progress for me. Please define who the left is to you because... The left

[Chloe Brown]:

as it exists south of Bloor is not the left that exists north of Eglinton.

[Chloe Brown]:

And growing up in a Jamaican immigrant household, we don't use the words

[Chloe Brown]:

left and right. You're socialist, you're capitalist, you are communist. There's

[Chloe Brown]:

a larger vocabulary to use when it comes to speaking about politics. So when

[Chloe Brown]:

the left's progressive showed up, it's just like, oh, cool. Like, Being the

[Chloe Brown]:

left hand of capitalism is not the flex that you think it is. You know what

[Chloe Brown]:

I mean? You're progressing what? You're all sitting at the same lunch table

[Chloe Brown]:

and progressing what? You know what I mean? And this is where respectfully,

[Chloe Brown]:

my parents never spoke well about the late, the child, like Olivia Chow, Jack

[Chloe Brown]:

Layton. They see them as people who had professional jobs, taking up social

[Chloe Brown]:

housing. That's how they're spoken about in my community. So it's like. left progress

[Chloe Brown]:

for who? Like who are you representing except downtown? And this is where the left

[Chloe Brown]:

constantly loses the suburbs because it's like you only speak to downtown

[Chloe Brown]:

urbanism and when it comes to the suburbs you run through our neighborhoods

[Chloe Brown]:

during campaign seasons. We never see you. So who is Olivia Chow to me? You know

[Chloe Brown]:

what I mean? Like respectfully who is Olivia Chow to me as a

[Chloe Brown]:

that never saw the NDP. You know what I mean? They only come around during election

[Chloe Brown]:

season and this is why Doug Ford was able to sweep the suburbs because they're

[Chloe Brown]:

champagne socialist. Their politics? Let's be honest, like their politics haven't

[Chloe Brown]:

advanced labor laws. They're still doing these piecemeal negotiations and

[Chloe Brown]:

this is why teachers and nurses and ECE workers are not getting fair wages

[Chloe Brown]:

because they're still just the left hand of capitalism. And this is where

[Chloe Brown]:

I have to be honest, I'm politically agnostic. I hold no membership to any political

[Chloe Brown]:

party because they're all equally disappointing. If you want my vote, fight for

[Chloe Brown]:

it.

[Jessa]:

So partisan-wise, you don't belong to a party, but you did mention some labels

[Jessa]:

that are gonna perk our ears up. Would you consider yourself a socialist?

[Chloe Brown]:

No, not really. Like, I read socialist text, I read communist text, I read

[Chloe Brown]:

all the political ideology, but to be honest, like, my identity is politicized.

[Chloe Brown]:

I personally am not a political person. I am someone who is a systems thinker.

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm a troubleshooter. I look at problems. I don't care what side of the

[Chloe Brown]:

spectrum they come to me from. I look at people's values because the truth

[Chloe Brown]:

is there are liberals who have very unethical policies because they don't

[Chloe Brown]:

talk to people. So it's like, I don't hinge myself to any political ideology.

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm just a people person and... maybe that is rooted in socialism, but it's

[Chloe Brown]:

like the reality of my history is not the same as people that grew up like

[Chloe Brown]:

being Irish in North America or being English in North America. And yeah,

[Chloe Brown]:

it's complex because it's like, I'm a little liberal about some things, I'm

[Chloe Brown]:

socialist about some things, I can be conservative about capital punishment,

[Chloe Brown]:

especially when it's... especially heinous crime, like law and order says. And

[Chloe Brown]:

that's the thing, it's just my political beliefs are on a case by case basis.

[Chloe Brown]:

And when it comes to dealing with people, you have no idea why they... adopt

[Chloe Brown]:

certain political identities. So to stop myself from participating in prejudice,

[Chloe Brown]:

I don't identify as anything. I just support the most vulnerable person in

[Chloe Brown]:

the room because that's the most ethical and right thing to do. And that's always

[Chloe Brown]:

how I've been treated where it's like when I felt small, it was someone stepping

[Chloe Brown]:

out of themselves to welcome me that was the right thing to do. And I've

[Chloe Brown]:

never asked

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Mm-hmm.

[Chloe Brown]:

someone like, Oh, what are your political beliefs and why are you doing this?

[Chloe Brown]:

No, they just kindness is free. And I respect people who show kindness, not

[Chloe Brown]:

just being nice because nice is gift wrapping. Like, do you sacrifice your

[Chloe Brown]:

time? Do you teach people? I look at your actions because labels are superfluous.

[Chloe Brown]:

You know what I mean? Like, I could, there's a lot of nice people that are

[Chloe Brown]:

narcissists. And that's the problem with politics. A lot of us get wrapped up in

[Chloe Brown]:

like, oh, he dresses nice. He talks nice, his hair is nice. And then it's

[Chloe Brown]:

like, okay, like. Do you know the movie American Psycho? Christian Bale showed

[Chloe Brown]:

how nice people can hide very violent thoughts. And that's why it's like

[Chloe Brown]:

I push people to not just be a political label, to justify to me why you

[Chloe Brown]:

choose to identify with this. Because the truth is, not a lot of people have

[Chloe Brown]:

political identities. It's the politicians that give them to people.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Mm-hmm. One thing that you said that resonated with me about

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

how, you know, these parties, they don't show up in the suburbs

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

outside of electoral seasons, right? And that's something like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

you know, we talk a lot about, which is one of the problems with

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

these partisan spaces is, you know, the focus on elections. And obviously,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

like, you're you've chosen to like participate in in electoral

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

politics and And we know how flawed the municipal elections

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

are, even though they claim to be these nonpartisan spaces.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

We know that, you know, the big parties, they have their favorites

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

and that it is a bit of a rigged game in that sense, because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

it's not equal footing. And we know about how much control developer

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

money has and everything. And so I guess I want to ask you about, like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

what should be happening outside of those campaigns? You know, what

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

is... work that needs to happen you know after July when I forget

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

the day of the election

[Chloe Brown]:

June 26.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

in July something June 20 see not even July

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

uh June 26th you know after June 26th you know something some

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

we'll have a new mayor and a lot of the problems will still

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

be there and with all likelihood we won't get the change that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

we need and there'll be a lot of fighting so I just like in from

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

your

[Chloe Brown]:

So

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

You know?

[Chloe Brown]:

I think one of the big things that we as a collective society are going through

[Chloe Brown]:

is the end of the project. And it's like, yeah, we are at the end of the consumerism

[Chloe Brown]:

project, the mass production project. And a lot of us need to realize what's

[Chloe Brown]:

next is participatory government, which means you're going to have to find time

[Chloe Brown]:

to meet up with your neighbors and figure out how your tax dollars can fix

[Chloe Brown]:

your neighborhood. This is called participatory budgeting. It happens in Brazil,

[Chloe Brown]:

parts of America. And Toronto Community Housing actually did this for a long

[Chloe Brown]:

number of years until the executive board took that power away from them. And it's

[Chloe Brown]:

essentially like figuring out like, if we have this much rent, what can we

[Chloe Brown]:

do to fix the foyer? What can we do to have a better chain of contractors

[Chloe Brown]:

doing maintenance on the building? Like we have to become more active shareholders.

[Chloe Brown]:

in our own lives. And I think this is where the pandemic made us realize

[Chloe Brown]:

it's like how much control do you actually have over your time in your life

[Chloe Brown]:

if you're commuting for two hours to get to a job that's eight hours and then

[Chloe Brown]:

you have to commute for another two like 12 hours of your day is gone. And

[Chloe Brown]:

it also made people realize that you can't just be a passive family member because

[Chloe Brown]:

like during the pandemic my stepfather passed and just trying to step into his shoes

[Chloe Brown]:

was one of the like emotionally draining things that I experienced because

[Chloe Brown]:

it's like, I didn't realize how many people depended on my father for just

[Chloe Brown]:

like emotional support. My stepdad was a person that calls you every week. He

[Chloe Brown]:

looked after my niece and nephew while all of us as kids worked. Do you know

[Chloe Brown]:

what I mean? And when he died, I had to step in and provide childcare for

[Chloe Brown]:

my sister who has two kids and as much as auntie loves them, auntie is not

[Chloe Brown]:

built for early childhood education. So this is where it's like, we need to agree

[Chloe Brown]:

that we have to pay early childhood education workers a fair wage. No more like

[Chloe Brown]:

discussion, no more minimum wage conversation. They need a living wage because

[Chloe Brown]:

not everyone is meant to take care and educate children as much as we love

[Chloe Brown]:

them. They're just people that are better at it and they're more like involved

[Chloe Brown]:

in it. And then it's also like we have to hold the government accountable

[Chloe Brown]:

because it's like they're your accountant. They are your. planner, they're

[Chloe Brown]:

your architect, they have a very specific role and we should be taking one day

[Chloe Brown]:

out of the week to call them. Just what are you up to? I sent in my taxes,

[Chloe Brown]:

what did you do with it? Send me an invoice. We have to become their coworkers

[Chloe Brown]:

instead of giving them free reign over our checkbook. Like we are not the bank

[Chloe Brown]:

of mom and dad. We are your coworker. If you don't show up for work, there will be

[Chloe Brown]:

consequences. And this is where the active... shareholder has to come out because

[Chloe Brown]:

it's like I won't be the person to transition us from capitalism but these

[Chloe Brown]:

next three years will be crucial in figuring out like the future ahead because

[Chloe Brown]:

now that we've been exposed to remote work now that we've seen how the government

[Chloe Brown]:

can provide universal access to like financial support we cannot go back

[Chloe Brown]:

and this is the this is the rock in the hard place lowest level of democracy,

[Chloe Brown]:

which is our streets. If we can't control them, we have no hopes of changing

[Chloe Brown]:

the federal government's mind. So it's like, we really have to get involved

[Chloe Brown]:

in the local government, your local neighborhood council, you need to become

[Chloe Brown]:

more involved with your neighbors because this is why these politicians use the

[Chloe Brown]:

Merrill's race as a springboard instead of a platform or a dinner table to

[Chloe Brown]:

bring more people around. And I will say, look at the race between Anthony

[Chloe Brown]:

Peruzza and Giorgio Mammoliti. They're only sticking in that area because

[Chloe Brown]:

they're trying to be the person to replace Judy Sagro, who is the Liberal MP

[Chloe Brown]:

of that spot right now. A lot of these candidates are using the mayoral's

[Chloe Brown]:

race to like feel out their chances for the Liberal race on December 2nd. They're

[Chloe Brown]:

not serious about being a part of the city. They're doing this as a... corporate

[Chloe Brown]:

ladder climb and we, we as their neighbors, we as the workers who serve them

[Chloe Brown]:

food need to call them out regularly. Like, I hate to say this, but Doug Ford shouldn't

[Chloe Brown]:

be able to eat comfortably in the province of Ontario until he funds education,

[Chloe Brown]:

healthcare, etc. Because the truth is, Doug works for me. I don't care if

[Chloe Brown]:

the city of Toronto is a creature of the province, Doug Ford collects a paycheck

[Chloe Brown]:

from my hard work. And as a worker, he does not get to leave his home until he

[Chloe Brown]:

fixed his things because he chose this role. He could have ruined his father's

[Chloe Brown]:

business at Deco labels, but he chose to come into an arena where I'm paying

[Chloe Brown]:

good money. And this is where we like, you need to become a little bit of

[Chloe Brown]:

a loan shark with these guys because it's like the developers are loan sharks

[Chloe Brown]:

with them and they gave away the green belt. How much more should six million

[Chloe Brown]:

people? be activated and mobilize against what, a hundred people at Queens Park?

[Chloe Brown]:

Who are they to us? You work for me, despite me earning my little salary,

[Chloe Brown]:

you take taxes that then allow you to live this lavish lifestyle and have

[Chloe Brown]:

no performance metrics? No. So this is where, like, even if I don't win, you

[Chloe Brown]:

guys have to become little Chloe's, little nuisances, and actually like... demand

[Chloe Brown]:

better for yourself because asking your oppressor or your abuser to treat you

[Chloe Brown]:

better is insanity. And that's exactly the collective fever dream that we're

[Chloe Brown]:

stuck in where it's like, oh if we ask Doug and like appeal to his humanity

[Chloe Brown]:

he won't treat us badly. He cut council, he's selling the greenbelt. Like how

[Chloe Brown]:

much more are you gonna beg this man to treat you nicely? Go to the feds. There's

[Chloe Brown]:

always a

[Jessa]:

LEP

[Chloe Brown]:

higher authority. There's always a bigger fish. Go to that, wrap, dug it up

[Chloe Brown]:

in lawsuits until the next election, because who is Douglas Ford to six, like to

[Chloe Brown]:

us? Who is he? You know?

[Jessa]:

Let me ask you about that, exactly what you're talking about there, but in your

[Jessa]:

role as mayor, right? You have to deal with these folks. Not only do you have to go

[Jessa]:

to the feds, the city of Toronto is a complete creature of the province, beholden

[Jessa]:

to them to a very big degree. We've heard what you think about Doug Ford. The sentiments

[Jessa]:

are shared here, obviously. You know, we talk about disruption. But as mayor... How

[Jessa]:

would you leverage that relationship? And how should the Toronto mayor be using that

[Jessa]:

relationship that they have to make sure Toronto gets what they deserve, the funding

[Jessa]:

that they deserve and whatnot? What is an ideal relationship for you there? Because

[Jessa]:

right now they are going hat in hand and asking as kindly as possible and getting

[Jessa]:

nothing in return, right? So how do you step that up a little bit?

[Chloe Brown]:

you act like an actual business instead of a beggar. And that is essentially

[Chloe Brown]:

what these politicians have been doing. They just go begging with no plan. Just

[Chloe Brown]:

give me money because I'm Toronto. No. You know what I mean? I've never seen such

[Chloe Brown]:

a pathetic group come to a bank with no plan and just like give me money because

[Chloe Brown]:

vibes, you know? And this is where, as a policy analyst, I'm aware of administrative

[Chloe Brown]:

laws. I'm aware of what... policy mechanisms are available to me and I know how

[Chloe Brown]:

to use them. These other candidates don't because all they're used to is just begging

[Chloe Brown]:

each other for money like rich people beg each other for money at fundraisers.

[Chloe Brown]:

They don't work. And this is where I have plans to essentially go to the

[Chloe Brown]:

feds and go above Doug because even Doug has to ask the feds for money and

[Chloe Brown]:

we saw with the healthcare transfers that the feds are willing to claw them back.

[Chloe Brown]:

when the province does not fulfill the desired outcomes of the federal government.

[Chloe Brown]:

So this is where I'm using my knowledge of policy to say like, hey, as the

[Chloe Brown]:

country's largest city, if I can build programs and services to help the

[Chloe Brown]:

federal government reach its outcomes, why do you need to fund Doug when

[Chloe Brown]:

you can fund me? And this happens because there are grants and loans that municipalities

[Chloe Brown]:

can apply for. but you don't have a bunch of grant writers. So how are you

[Chloe Brown]:

surprised that they're not writing to the feds to get this money or they don't

[Chloe Brown]:

have plans? Like they, it's really frustrating, but it's like, yeah, what you

[Chloe Brown]:

see these politicians doing with the city's broke, the city's broke, it's not

[Chloe Brown]:

broke. The city has reserves that are tied up in projects like the Gardner.

[Chloe Brown]:

They have money that's reserved for policing. It's really about the allocation

[Chloe Brown]:

and the priorities of council that's making us appear broke. But if you're

[Chloe Brown]:

a policy analyst, you know the city has money. And this is why other levels

[Chloe Brown]:

of government are not giving it to the City of Toronto. Because you can't

[Chloe Brown]:

continue to cry poor and have billions in reserves in deferred revenue. And

[Chloe Brown]:

your plans are not in line with the country's priorities. And This is where

[Chloe Brown]:

I challenge other people to realize, like, where do you think the Ontario and the

[Chloe Brown]:

Canadian money comes from? It's still our money, you know? And if other levels

[Chloe Brown]:

of government don't want to give it to the local council, it's because they've

[Chloe Brown]:

been irresponsible with it. So this is why my platform's so thick, because

[Chloe Brown]:

those are all the plans that I'm taking to the feds. Each and every one

[Chloe Brown]:

of them fulfills one of the federal government's missions, whether it's climate

[Chloe Brown]:

change, agricultural technology. like affordable housing, all of these programs

[Chloe Brown]:

are aligned to a federal ministry, the Canadian Housing and Mortgage Corporation.

[Chloe Brown]:

And this is where having a plan, having a plan is one of like the easiest things

[Chloe Brown]:

for me to do because it's like, I'm an analyst, I go through government reports

[Chloe Brown]:

all the time, I know what the feds are looking for, I know what it takes

[Chloe Brown]:

to deliver upon these things, and I actually have the grit to deliver, not

[Chloe Brown]:

city council because all they do is refer things back to staff. They don't

[Chloe Brown]:

do research, they're not active counselors, they're very passive actors. So

[Chloe Brown]:

it's really up to me to raise the bar, not just for my fellow counselors,

[Chloe Brown]:

but for like the MPs and the MPPs because they also live here too. And this

[Chloe Brown]:

is where my approach is, I don't wanna say it's bullying, but it's like raise

[Chloe Brown]:

the bar for all of them. There's all levels of government. living in this city,

[Chloe Brown]:

playing theater, and they're not using the levers of policy to advance democracy.

[Chloe Brown]:

It's really up to us to stop outsourcing our civic responsibility to political

[Chloe Brown]:

leaders. We have to take responsibility for all these rights that we demand that we

[Chloe Brown]:

have. Like, okay, housing is a human right, great. What responsibility have

[Chloe Brown]:

you taken for making sure your neighbor has access to housing? You know what

[Chloe Brown]:

I mean? And this is where, like I have to say it's hard for me, but I have

[Chloe Brown]:

to call out people who go camping because it's like, you go camping in a rural

[Chloe Brown]:

man's backyard and it's fine, but there are homeless people in this city

[Chloe Brown]:

and you want to evict them from the park for camping? The same thing that you're

[Chloe Brown]:

doing in Algonquin or one of the national parks, like let's be real. We

[Chloe Brown]:

wouldn't have encampments if homeowners associations and residents associations

[Chloe Brown]:

weren't biased against apartments and who comes from apartments, which is people

[Chloe Brown]:

like me. And this is where we really need to confront one another about with

[Chloe Brown]:

all these rights that you claim, what responsibility have you taken on to protect

[Chloe Brown]:

these rights? Because if you continue to leave it up to 25 people to defend

[Chloe Brown]:

the rights of millions, you're not gonna get it. You're not gonna get what

[Chloe Brown]:

you want. You know what I mean? Because... these 25 people keep asking Tom,

[Chloe Brown]:

Dick, and Harry what's wrong. If you keep asking Tom, Dick, and Harry what

[Chloe Brown]:

the problem is, you'll get Tom, Dick, and Harry solutions each and every time.

[Chloe Brown]:

And that's where you see this over-representation of executive opinions in

[Chloe Brown]:

working class programs. The working class does not inform policy. And it's because,

[Chloe Brown]:

yes, we're working two or three jobs, but then we're also the ones arguing

[Chloe Brown]:

about, oh, the prices are going up because minimum wage is going up. No, no,

[Chloe Brown]:

no, no, darling. The price is going up because the executives want greater

[Chloe Brown]:

share of the profits. How can you, and this is where I get frustrated with

[Chloe Brown]:

even the left because it's like, we are arguing about whether or not a man should

[Chloe Brown]:

earn $16 an hour knowing that that's not feasible for surviving. No one wants

[Chloe Brown]:

to talk about the overpayment of executives or the fact that the economy

[Chloe Brown]:

has stalled because executive leadership, all they do is eat up small companies.

[Chloe Brown]:

There's no competitive economy here. There's three guys in a trench coat for

[Chloe Brown]:

everything. Telecoms, groceries.

[Jessa]:

I've got to say I disagree with that sentiment on the left. I mean, we are constantly

[Jessa]:

talking about the overpayment of CEOs and the inflation,

[Chloe Brown]:

what

[Jessa]:

and

[Chloe Brown]:

are

[Jessa]:

unfortunately

[Chloe Brown]:

we doing

[Jessa]:

they've

[Chloe Brown]:

about it?

[Jessa]:

coined the term greedflation. But I think Santiago, you were looking to ask a question

[Jessa]:

there.

[Chloe Brown]:

Bye.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Well, I guess what I, that actually has to do with, I guess, what

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

you just, the comments you just made, Chloe, what are we doing about

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

it? Right. And I guess I want to ask is where is that disconnect

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

coming from? Because, you know, one thing that I talk a lot about

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

is the fact that all of our essential goods and services are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

in shambles right now, like every single thing that people need

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

is in horrible conditions. And so. then you look at politics and you look

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

at the fact that, you know, in France, they're in this, they've

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

been in the streets for months now. I don't even know how long

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

it's been over pensions getting raised two years, but here there's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

complete inaction as this has happened. You know, Jessa has the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Ford tracker where she's been, you know, keeping track of every

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

single horrible thing that Ford has done because it is impossible

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

to keep track of it all

[Chloe Brown]:

Thank

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

because

[Chloe Brown]:

you.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

it's just so overwhelming. And so, Yeah, we know that we need we need

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

to be doing stuff. Why is that not happening? And how can we get

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

to the point where people are actually holding these leaders accountable

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

and why? Like, and I guess like, is that going to come from from

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

electoral? Is that going to come on the streets? And how do we

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

even make that happen on the streets? Like, we know we need it, but

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

how do we get it?

[Chloe Brown]:

So this is where, like I've been working with tenants associations to get them

[Chloe Brown]:

ready to register as nonprofits so that they can hold land as community land

[Chloe Brown]:

trust groups. And these actions are happening in small pockets. If you look

[Chloe Brown]:

at Parkdale, they pushed Gord Perks

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Yeah.

[Chloe Brown]:

to get the money to secure 80, like to secure properties. They have up to

[Chloe Brown]:

85 now. And this is where we really need to come out of our shell for the

[Chloe Brown]:

right occasions. Because... I remember being a kid in 2012 and the thing

[Chloe Brown]:

was like, we're going to find Kony who was like this African warlord and

[Chloe Brown]:

it started on Twitter and I'm just like, how do we have the audacity to be

[Chloe Brown]:

looking at other people's countries talking about we're going to find this person?

[Chloe Brown]:

Meanwhile, like the biggest offender is your counselor. So it's like, we really

[Chloe Brown]:

have to think about like, how do you use this phone? How are you using this

[Chloe Brown]:

phone to organize your friends to bring down the cost of housing? bring down

[Chloe Brown]:

the cost of groceries, Wi-Fi, because these things are possible. It's really

[Chloe Brown]:

about us coming together and instead of like using that money to go to that

[Chloe Brown]:

restaurant, we use it to come together and agitate. And this is where like,

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm not, I don't know how to describe it, but it's like, yes, I'm a little

[Chloe Brown]:

bit of a shit disturber and I like to push people to re-imagine their possibilities.

[Chloe Brown]:

So it's like, yeah, for $200. and 25 signatures, I got on a platform and

[Chloe Brown]:

I shook an old man who was the symbol of the status quo. And it wasn't because

[Chloe Brown]:

I wanted to win, it's because it was larger than that. John Tory, to me,

[Chloe Brown]:

was a symbol of the old guard in every boardroom across Toronto. And someone

[Chloe Brown]:

had to ask him, what are you doing with my money, with all this management

[Chloe Brown]:

experience, all these friends you have? you are actually doing your job because

[Chloe Brown]:

I was really at my wits end. I was looking at leaving the country, applying

[Chloe Brown]:

for visas, and it's like, why? Because I can't afford housing in the country

[Chloe Brown]:

that I'm born in. I refuse to be run out by downtown Abbeys, so it's like,

[Chloe Brown]:

this is the way that I fight it. And I would encourage more people to not

[Chloe Brown]:

think of fighting as a bad thing or a violent thing, but it's like, you're right.

[Chloe Brown]:

You have to fight for your right to party. Beastie Boys say, and that's really

[Chloe Brown]:

where I try to make people realize, like, you have a lot more power than you think.

[Chloe Brown]:

Look at how Gen Z destroys brands regularly. Cancel culture. If you get enough

[Chloe Brown]:

people together and you can generate enough, like, viral activity, that's a beacon.

[Chloe Brown]:

And it's more important to send up a beacon than it is to win. quote unquote,

[Chloe Brown]:

because the beacon will at least let people know that, hey, I'm lost and I'm

[Chloe Brown]:

looking to be found. And that's where the vulnerability part of social media

[Chloe Brown]:

can really work in our favor, where it's like more of us need to be honest

[Chloe Brown]:

about the fact that, like, yeah, I make X amount of money and I'm still like

[Chloe Brown]:

afraid that I have to go to the food bank. I make X amount of dollars. But

[Chloe Brown]:

by the time I pay my rent and I pay for medication for my disabled child,

[Chloe Brown]:

I have to go to the food bank. You know what I mean? We don't know how deeply

[Chloe Brown]:

poverty runs in our communities because a lot of us are using social media

[Chloe Brown]:

to flex and to be like, look what I have, look how wonderful my life is.

[Chloe Brown]:

It's like, show me tears. You know what I mean? Show me the tears that I

[Chloe Brown]:

know you have because it's like, me as a policy analyst, I have to get a lot

[Chloe Brown]:

of my information now from social media and news stories because people don't

[Chloe Brown]:

answer surveys like they used to. So it's like, I'm hearing one thing from

[Chloe Brown]:

the public, but then my reports say differently, and this is why I have to

[Chloe Brown]:

run, because it's like the information is no longer making sense to me. Because I

[Chloe Brown]:

have friends that are going through the training programs, that are doing all the

[Chloe Brown]:

right things, and the outcomes are not amounting to what has been promised

[Chloe Brown]:

to them. And I find that like the most frustrating thing about being an advocate

[Chloe Brown]:

for marginalized people. Because you have... It builds up nihilism. When people

[Chloe Brown]:

don't see all their hard work amounting to something, it builds up hopelessness,

[Chloe Brown]:

it builds up detachment inside of them, and this is the mental health crisis

[Chloe Brown]:

that we're seeing right now. People have put their hopes and dreams in this

[Chloe Brown]:

city and have been rewarded nothing. They've been rewarded with evictions. They've

[Chloe Brown]:

been awarded with food insecurity, and this is where we really need to come together

[Chloe Brown]:

and ask, like, why doesn't my building's lobby grow food? There's vertical

[Chloe Brown]:

and like hydroponic

[Jessa]:

Don't

[Chloe Brown]:

gardens.

[Jessa]:

start, don't start Santiago, I know I can see it, he's gonna start talking about

[Jessa]:

vertical greenhouses.

[Chloe Brown]:

No,

[Jessa]:

Chloe,

[Chloe Brown]:

let's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

That's

[Chloe Brown]:

do that.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

a...

[Jessa]:

how did you

[Chloe Brown]:

Let's

[Jessa]:

do this?

[Chloe Brown]:

go

[Jessa]:

How

[Chloe Brown]:

crazy.

[Jessa]:

did we come this full circle? Every episode.

[Chloe Brown]:

We

[Jessa]:

Ow.

[Chloe Brown]:

have the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

That

[Chloe Brown]:

technology

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

that did

[Chloe Brown]:

now. We

[Jessa]:

Yeah

[Chloe Brown]:

have the technology. We see these empty lots all around our communities, empty

[Chloe Brown]:

storefronts. You mean to tell me we can't challenge Loblaws? You know what

[Chloe Brown]:

I mean?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Uh...

[Jessa]:

Oh,

[Chloe Brown]:

When

[Jessa]:

Santiago

[Chloe Brown]:

it comes

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

That...

[Chloe Brown]:

to...

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Eh... Heh...

[Jessa]:

is there for that,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Heh...

[Jessa]:

Chloe. He

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Heh... That

[Jessa]:

is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

is very

[Jessa]:

planning

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

much.

[Jessa]:

it already. He will call you for sure. I'm curious, though. You've got a lot of heat

[Jessa]:

for John Tory, rightfully so. No one's judging, Chloe. Um, and some of these counselors

[Jessa]:

running against you. Have you got to debate them? Like, was there a... I'm sorry,

[Jessa]:

I don't live in Toronto. So

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

was there a debate last time? Like, no.

[Chloe Brown]:

There were two

[Jessa]:

No.

[Chloe Brown]:

debates with John Tory last time. I participated in nine in total with other

[Chloe Brown]:

candidates. So it's like, yeah, by the time I got to meet John, it was like,

[Chloe Brown]:

I've done six of these, just roll out the seventh one. And honestly, I was

[Chloe Brown]:

at City, I was an intern in 2014 when John first got in. I've met John Tory

[Chloe Brown]:

multiple times. I was in a meeting with John Tory when Black Lives Matters took

[Chloe Brown]:

over the police station. And this is actually when I decided I wouldn't

[Chloe Brown]:

do politics because he brought us into this meeting at 8 a.m. and was like,

[Chloe Brown]:

how do I deal with these people? And I'm like, John, do you know I'm one of

[Chloe Brown]:

those people? You really called me into this meeting as like a 60 year old

[Chloe Brown]:

man and you've been around like these people all your life and you still don't

[Chloe Brown]:

know what to do. And

[Jessa]:

Did

[Chloe Brown]:

that's

[Jessa]:

you

[Chloe Brown]:

the

[Jessa]:

get

[Chloe Brown]:

thing.

[Jessa]:

to

[Chloe Brown]:

It's

[Jessa]:

say

[Chloe Brown]:

like...

[Jessa]:

that to him though? Like that was my question. Like, have you got to say to these

[Jessa]:

people, like, what are

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

you doing with my money? Like, you, you know, you're the wonkiest of all the candidates

[Jessa]:

and that is a policy wonk, right? That's not a...

[Chloe Brown]:

they force me to become a wonk. And that's the thing,

[Jessa]:

Yeah,

[Chloe Brown]:

that's what people don't understand.

[Jessa]:

but what a great tool in a debate, right? Like if you just need to be able to

[Jessa]:

stand next to these folks and actually talk about some of these policies, because

[Jessa]:

that's where you'd be real fi- not that you're not fire on your own, but I would

[Jessa]:

love to see that because,

[Chloe Brown]:

Well,

[Jessa]:

you know, just

[Chloe Brown]:

this

[Jessa]:

like

[Chloe Brown]:

is...

[Jessa]:

your approach and how you feel about them. I mean, I'd tune in for that with popcorn

[Jessa]:

and everything.

[Chloe Brown]:

Well, this is why the polls are leaving me out, because a lot of these debates

[Chloe Brown]:

rely on polling data. If you leave my name out of it, of course I'm not

[Chloe Brown]:

gonna show up on the polls as like a top five candidate to invite to debates,

[Chloe Brown]:

because yeah, I will surgically eviscerate each and every one of them, because

[Chloe Brown]:

I've deputed to each and every one of them. I've deputed to Mark Saunders,

[Chloe Brown]:

Josh Matlow, Anna Bailout. Like, name a person on that stage and I can tell

[Chloe Brown]:

you a relationship that I've had with this person through the youth equity

[Chloe Brown]:

strategy, the Toronto Strong Neighborhood strategy, anti-poverty reduction.

[Chloe Brown]:

I was at City Hall from 2014 to 2016 and it was like those two years made

[Chloe Brown]:

me realize I never wanted to work directly with politicians as an EA, a

[Chloe Brown]:

constituent assistant, because like they're not. They, I'm not saying all

[Chloe Brown]:

of them, but it's really hard for me to do that frontline work with no solutions.

[Chloe Brown]:

I don't like telling people like, oh, I'm so sorry, like I can't do anything

[Chloe Brown]:

knowing that I could do something, you know? And that's why I'm running because

[Chloe Brown]:

it's like I am no one's secretary anymore. Like I'm either

[Jessa]:

Hmph.

[Chloe Brown]:

going to give you solutions straight up or not give you solutions at all because

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm tired of being complicit of bad government. You know what I mean? Like

[Chloe Brown]:

as a policy

[Jessa]:

Oh, I know

[Chloe Brown]:

analyst,

[Jessa]:

what you mean.

[Chloe Brown]:

it's, yeah, you work

[Jessa]:

And we've

[Chloe Brown]:

for

[Jessa]:

heard

[Chloe Brown]:

the government.

[Jessa]:

from a lot of LA's and constituent assistants, it's a tough slog, especially for

[Jessa]:

someone who has a vision of something better. Quite often, people go into those real

[Jessa]:

pie-eyed and end up very jaded.

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

So I don't blame you for not wanting to play that role anymore. And I guess you've

[Jessa]:

kind of already answered it, but you know, in a discussion that we had on our discord,

[Jessa]:

at one point I said, not everybody runs to win. Right? Like not everybody, like

[Jessa]:

most people have a realistic expectation of money and politics and outcomes and, but

[Jessa]:

that doesn't deter everyone. Right?

[Chloe Brown]:

Mm-hmm.

[Jessa]:

Not everyone's a career politician and quite a- few times in this interview you

[Jessa]:

said like, and that's when I realized I'd never do politics. And that's when I realized,

[Jessa]:

you know, you seem quite jaded about politics and so are we, right? Like it's, it's

[Jessa]:

totally justified,

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

but you're still running for a

[Chloe Brown]:

Yes.

[Jessa]:

really big in a really big race with a huge profile taking a lot of time out of

[Jessa]:

your life.

[Jessa]:

That... are you running to win?

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm running to win and also advance democracy because yeah, it's people say it's

[Chloe Brown]:

the worst system but like have you tried authoritarian governments? You know

[Chloe Brown]:

what I mean? And I'd rather fight for democracy than win in the traditional sense

[Chloe Brown]:

but it's like, yes, I'm running to win because God knows like I cannot continue

[Chloe Brown]:

in the way that things are. but it's more important for me to raise the bar

[Chloe Brown]:

of political discourse because I cannot continue with this lazy conversation

[Chloe Brown]:

of left wing, right wing. It's the same bird. Please stop trying to like make

[Chloe Brown]:

me believe it's a different bird. We need to actually advance democracy because

[Chloe Brown]:

we have seen how democracy is eroding and what is on the other side of democracy,

[Chloe Brown]:

just look south of the border. I do. not have the cholesterol for American

[Chloe Brown]:

style politics. And I don't believe a lot of us have that cholesterol for it because

[Chloe Brown]:

the truth is the only way that our society works is this agreement that democracy

[Chloe Brown]:

is better than the alternative. And that's what makes all these culturally

[Chloe Brown]:

diverse people live in this place because the truth is, Toronto is one of those

[Chloe Brown]:

few places where you'll meet people from warring countries. who do not care

[Chloe Brown]:

about the war in their country. They're just happy to be here and have the

[Chloe Brown]:

opportunity to live amongst each other. And I say this like having friends from

[Chloe Brown]:

India, Pakistan, like Palestine, Israel, like we can all sit together and talk

[Chloe Brown]:

about how messed up our countries are and still be like, I want to advance democracy

[Chloe Brown]:

here so that when people are ready to come here, they are accepted. And

[Chloe Brown]:

that to me is worth, that is like the hill that I am willing to die on.

[Chloe Brown]:

to not be morbid, but it's like, yeah, that's why I stay in Toronto because

[Chloe Brown]:

it's like, this is one of the few democracies that works in the entire world.

[Chloe Brown]:

And to me, that's sacred because democracy has been a project that has been

[Chloe Brown]:

changed and modified over like 200 years. And here I am still holding onto

[Chloe Brown]:

it, like being able to protect it. And I want to be able to pass that on to

[Chloe Brown]:

my niece and nephew because under democracy, no one is above the law. under democracy,

[Chloe Brown]:

there are no monarchies. Under democracy, everyone is granted dignity, equality,

[Chloe Brown]:

and freedom. And for me, it's like that's bigger than the mayor's office.

[Chloe Brown]:

It's bigger than Justin Trudeau or Doug Ford. Like for democracy to work, all

[Chloe Brown]:

of us have to once again feel that we are an active city builder, an active

[Chloe Brown]:

policymaker, because that is what has advanced my right to get education.

[Chloe Brown]:

And I say that in the context of the civil rights movement where it's like,

[Chloe Brown]:

I grew up with images of little girls walking to school across seas of hateful

[Chloe Brown]:

people. And if they didn't do that because they believed I had a fair, like

[Chloe Brown]:

I deserve fair access to education, what like, I couldn't be here having this conversation.

[Chloe Brown]:

So it's like, this is my sacred duty and it's. It's not about title for me

[Chloe Brown]:

because the mayor's office is just, it's just a title in office. If me, you

[Chloe Brown]:

and Santiago do not punch in for our jobs, what is there to rule over? What

[Chloe Brown]:

money is there to debate about? It really needs us to get back into the driver's

[Chloe Brown]:

seat of our own destiny, as opposed to outsourcing it to the corporation, outsourcing

[Chloe Brown]:

it to your local representative. We have to take control. of ourselves, what

[Chloe Brown]:

happens in our neighborhoods, and actually become active planners of the

[Chloe Brown]:

future. Because like when you were speaking, I was speaking to someone about

[Chloe Brown]:

AI today. And it's like, AI is not the threat that you think it is. It's the

[Chloe Brown]:

people that are going to use AI to replace humans without thinking about

[Chloe Brown]:

it as a tool, like a screwdriver in a toolkit. Because that's all AI should

[Chloe Brown]:

be seen as. It's like... It's a sonic screwdriver, if you're into Doctor

[Chloe Brown]:

Who. But it's just a tool in the toolkit. And when people decide to use

[Chloe Brown]:

technology to replace humanity, that's when you start having trouble because

[Chloe Brown]:

you can't replace creativity with like a bunch of generated AI images because

[Chloe Brown]:

the AI needed photos from human beings in order to build. it's intelligence

[Chloe Brown]:

and this is where yeah, 40 work weeks, remote work, like all that's really

[Chloe Brown]:

important because we need time back to be active, like active at our jobs

[Chloe Brown]:

of being family members, active at our jobs of being neighbors, like we need

[Chloe Brown]:

that time back and the technology is here to actually give us this time. So yes,

[Chloe Brown]:

this is where I say people need to go to their unions, their pension funds

[Chloe Brown]:

and ask them why aren't we building housing to bring down my cost of rent? Why

[Chloe Brown]:

aren't we pushing the government to rezone this specific area so we can have

[Chloe Brown]:

that vertical garden and those hydroponic gardens in my building? When it

[Chloe Brown]:

comes to the healthcare unions, why are we not building workforce housing with

[Chloe Brown]:

residential housing so healthcare workers can be doing more mobile and accessible

[Chloe Brown]:

forms of healthcare and social services? These things are in our control.

[Chloe Brown]:

It's just really about us confronting leadership about why aren't my assets working

[Chloe Brown]:

for me? Because it's not just enough to pay my, like I'm a part of Opsu,

[Chloe Brown]:

it's not just enough for me to just give Opsu my dues for legal representation.

[Chloe Brown]:

The cost of living has gone up and it should be the union's responsibility

[Chloe Brown]:

to figure out how can we make our money work for our workers outside of legal

[Chloe Brown]:

representation. It's providing housing, it's providing food, it's also like,

[Chloe Brown]:

and I say this, but when we think about the internet in the subway, We own the

[Chloe Brown]:

cables and we keep outsourcing the maintenance of the fiber optic network

[Chloe Brown]:

to Rogers to be AI when we could be owning our own broadband network. We could

[Chloe Brown]:

be... We could be creating more independent internet service providers to bring

[Chloe Brown]:

down another cost of a good service. So it's really about municipal stewardship,

[Chloe Brown]:

municipal ownership of lands, data, and infrastructure, and really just demanding

[Chloe Brown]:

a fair seat at the table with a plate of food, because just having a seat

[Chloe Brown]:

at the table is not enough now. If you're just staring at an empty plate, are

[Chloe Brown]:

you really a guest here or are you just an observer of a feast? So yeah, that's

[Chloe Brown]:

where I hope that kind of

[Jessa]:

I

[Chloe Brown]:

touches

[Jessa]:

hear you.

[Chloe Brown]:

on everything, but it's like, we just need to be shareholders the way that

[Chloe Brown]:

like, you're a shareholder of pot stock or, you know, a shoe company. So

[Chloe Brown]:

yeah, hope that answers it.

[Jessa]:

And then some. Yeah. Santiago, did you have any questions as we kind of get in

[Jessa]:

it? I mean, I do, but you've

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Uh,

[Jessa]:

been quiet.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

you know, I'll leave it to you because I don't know how to phrase

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

all of the questions that I have right now.

[Chloe Brown]:

Thank

[Jessa]:

Okay,

[Chloe Brown]:

you.

[Jessa]:

fair enough. Fair enough. I'm gonna get back to your platform a little bit and

[Jessa]:

At one point you talked about you know, the money being there and no doubt the city

[Jessa]:

of Toronto has a ginormous budget we just did an episode on how police funding and

[Jessa]:

and Doug Ford's new police pipeline, but in that we discovered that The city of

[Jessa]:

Toronto spends 33 million dollars a day on policing and I read through your platform,

[Jessa]:

you don't really definitively say one way or another, but you do talk about investments

[Jessa]:

that would be needed to better interact with the community, right? As replacing them

[Jessa]:

as crisis responders and whatnot.

[Chloe Brown]:

Mm-hmm.

[Jessa]:

Will you work to defund the police so that the funding is there for all of these

[Jessa]:

other projects that we're talking about?

[Chloe Brown]:

So that's the Public Health and Safety Commission that I'm looking at. So when

[Chloe Brown]:

you look at the organizational of the structure of the city, there are agencies,

[Chloe Brown]:

boards, corporations, and then there's divisions that work within the city

[Chloe Brown]:

to deliver programs. The agencies, boards, and committees, corporations are run

[Chloe Brown]:

by an executive council that's independent of city council. And that's why

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm creating these commissions to get rid of those executive boards and just

[Chloe Brown]:

reset revenues. based on the demands put on those commissions. And this

[Chloe Brown]:

is where, yes, it sounds like I'm defunding the police, but I would then

[Chloe Brown]:

reframe the question as to why it takes $1.3 billion to protect 3 million

[Chloe Brown]:

people. Like, is that really an efficient use of our dollars? If, and this

[Chloe Brown]:

is where like $1.3 billion would get you a security guard. It's for every person.

[Chloe Brown]:

So it's like, instead of looking at policing, from like law enforcement strictly,

[Chloe Brown]:

it's like we do have to acknowledge that there's a public safety angle around policing

[Chloe Brown]:

that we need to fully separate out of policing. And this is where, yes, I'm

[Chloe Brown]:

taking money out of the militarized form of policing to fund crisis workers. Because

[Chloe Brown]:

I believe it's up to 85% of calls received by the police are not emergency calls.

[Chloe Brown]:

They're like social calls, mental health calls, they're non-emergency calls from

[Chloe Brown]:

seniors. So we really need to separate that and just give the money to the

[Chloe Brown]:

public safety and healthcare portion of it. So yes, I'm planning to start

[Chloe Brown]:

the reduction up to like 200 million to get crisis workers their own department

[Chloe Brown]:

where they can just strictly look at how can we evolve public safety. and

[Chloe Brown]:

get more communities involved in that. Because the truth is, when I was growing

[Chloe Brown]:

up, I knew people that were schizophrenic. I knew that when they were having an episode

[Chloe Brown]:

by their behavior, and I knew who to call when that was happening. And it's

[Chloe Brown]:

usually the parent of that person. That split second with understanding if someone's

[Chloe Brown]:

going through a mental health crisis versus seeing something as an escalating

[Chloe Brown]:

violent incident can save someone's life. And this is where I want to put money

[Chloe Brown]:

in public health. to provide education to communities, to work with the

[Chloe Brown]:

mobile crisis workers to deliver these outcomes. So I can't say off the top

[Chloe Brown]:

of my head how this money will be divided, but I would like to put 200 million

[Chloe Brown]:

directly into mobile crisis workers. So that would reduce the policing budget to

[Chloe Brown]:

1.1 and then just keep going from there. Because the truth is, all I want

[Chloe Brown]:

police to do is deal with like investigative and tactical operations. which

[Chloe Brown]:

is like the car thefts. It's the, it's like the gang violence. And even

[Chloe Brown]:

then it's just like, I'm trying to bring the courts and policing services closer

[Chloe Brown]:

together because there's diversion opportunities, there was restorative justice

[Chloe Brown]:

opportunities, there's peacemaking opportunities that we could use to help divert

[Chloe Brown]:

youth out of the jail system. But the systems need to be connected because

[Chloe Brown]:

one of the... One of the things that people don't realize is that the City

[Chloe Brown]:

of Toronto funds court services. If the court services were connected to public

[Chloe Brown]:

health, it would be easier to refer people into healthcare programs when

[Chloe Brown]:

they needed them. It would be easier to coordinate with community groups

[Chloe Brown]:

to make sure that if someone is released back into the public, they're regularly

[Chloe Brown]:

checking into these sites to get the care that they need. However, these

[Chloe Brown]:

things don't happen because everything is separated. So it's like, this is where I'm

[Chloe Brown]:

bringing the police into this commission to slowly pull out of their budget

[Chloe Brown]:

to fund the public safety aspects of municipal services as opposed to law enforcement,

[Chloe Brown]:

if that makes sense. Feel free to question me on it.

[Jessa]:

No, it makes sense. And the reason I asked is just because you do use the word

[Jessa]:

investment along with policing in your platform. So I wanted to give you the ability

[Jessa]:

to clarify because one, personally, I don't like to see those two words put together,

[Jessa]:

particularly after seeing what Toronto spends on policing. It's more than the public

[Jessa]:

health, transportation, childcare, and libraries combined. And I... know, for

[Jessa]:

me if I lived in the city of Toronto that would be a huge point for me as a voter,

[Jessa]:

not just because it's an issue that is important to me, but it also sends a message

[Jessa]:

of the kind of political strength and bravery at this point in today's conditions.

[Jessa]:

Because if you look at the Toronto Marrow Race, the people that are getting the

[Jessa]:

most amplification unfortunately are the ones that are driving home this law and

[Jessa]:

order. rhetoric and providing more police as the only solution. So it's important

[Jessa]:

that there's a candidate out there

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

that provides an alternative. Another

[Chloe Brown]:

Market

[Jessa]:

one of your policy...

[Chloe Brown]:

Sorry.

[Jessa]:

sorry, I know, I'm sure you have a lot to say on it, but we just don't have much

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah,

[Jessa]:

more time

[Chloe Brown]:

go ahead, go ahead.

[Jessa]:

left and I definitely want to ask you about your housing first approach. So, you

[Jessa]:

know, without getting into too much... detail even though I know some audience members

[Jessa]:

would appreciate that. But what does that mean taking a housing first approach?

[Jessa]:

What does it mean in tangible policies at Toronto Council?

[Chloe Brown]:

So when I think of Housing First, I think of Khalil Sivaraj, where it's like

[Chloe Brown]:

he created those pods so that people would have privacy, a sense of dignity,

[Chloe Brown]:

even if they were in a shelter situation. And this is where the shelter system

[Chloe Brown]:

dramatically needs to be redesigned to give people a sense of dignity, equality,

[Chloe Brown]:

and freedom despite the fact that they're in an emergency situation or they're

[Chloe Brown]:

fleeing violence. And this is where the Housing First mission is not only

[Chloe Brown]:

just redesign shelters, but it's also make better emergency shelters across

[Chloe Brown]:

the city. Because the truth is the shelter system is full because it's not

[Chloe Brown]:

necessarily safe for people that are homeless. So we need to have better housing

[Chloe Brown]:

options such as like sleeping pods, micro homes and have them in areas that

[Chloe Brown]:

are staffed with social workers, healthcare workers, and a variety of people

[Chloe Brown]:

that can help them transition. I am To be honest, I have friends that are

[Chloe Brown]:

currently in relationships because there's not enough housing. If there was a

[Chloe Brown]:

short-term or mid-term housing solution that they could be using to save their

[Chloe Brown]:

money so that they can transition back into back into independent life, that

[Chloe Brown]:

would be ideal. And this is where I'm trying to invest in more purpose-built

[Chloe Brown]:

apartment rentals through the Community Land Trust, because the truth is,

[Chloe Brown]:

tenants associations need to start investing in housing. for more neighbors

[Chloe Brown]:

and we need to prevent homelessness from demolitions, amateur evictions, and a

[Chloe Brown]:

variety of things, but that won't happen immediately. So how do we then transform

[Chloe Brown]:

existing spaces? So it's like, I'm thinking abandoned buildings. You can start

[Chloe Brown]:

refurbishing them for these midterm and short-term solutions. It's really about

[Chloe Brown]:

how we approach modular housing. and also just modular design because we live

[Chloe Brown]:

in a time where you can fold walls and create more spaces. Modular design

[Chloe Brown]:

is a very, it's a very mobile and agile form of changing rooms to accommodate

[Chloe Brown]:

trauma-informed design for creating privacy, et cetera. My plan is really just

[Chloe Brown]:

getting more midterm housing solutions, purpose-built rental, and also just

[Chloe Brown]:

getting more. communities involved in being nonprofit developers. Because the

[Chloe Brown]:

problem that we have with the housing crisis is a lack of affordable land.

[Chloe Brown]:

We need to take over more lands that haven't been paying their property taxes.

[Chloe Brown]:

The city of Toronto just released a list of like 25 properties that have taxes

[Chloe Brown]:

up to like over $500,000 in arrears. Those

[Jessa]:

commercial

[Chloe Brown]:

properties

[Jessa]:

properties.

[Chloe Brown]:

could be private properties, yes, that haven't been paying their property

[Chloe Brown]:

taxes. and the city gives them grace to like run up their bills up to like

[Chloe Brown]:

half a million dollars, we could be transforming these lands into forms of housing.

[Chloe Brown]:

We could be building on top of transit stations. We could be building in a

[Chloe Brown]:

lot more places if we were focused on building purpose-built rentals because that's

[Chloe Brown]:

the missing middle right now. It's not condos or like, you know, those cute

[Chloe Brown]:

multiplexes. It's the fact that there's not enough apartments built for long

[Chloe Brown]:

term. tenancies and until we can get those built, I still need to figure

[Chloe Brown]:

out like how do I help people that are sleeping on the TTC, in the parks,

[Chloe Brown]:

in the hospitals, people that are revolving in and out of jail because that's

[Chloe Brown]:

a form of stabilized shelter because there's no apartments. So yeah, it's

[Chloe Brown]:

a multi-pronged plan, but it has to start with helping the disabled because

[Chloe Brown]:

that's who's making up the the majority of the homeless population right now.

[Chloe Brown]:

And if we can't build the shelters to be trauma-informed, disability-inclusive

[Chloe Brown]:

to accommodate them now, how are we gonna make sure that they stay in the

[Chloe Brown]:

apartments that we build later? So yeah, it's a ground up housing, looking

[Chloe Brown]:

at not just like the single family home, but looking at something as small as

[Chloe Brown]:

a sleeping pod that can be closed to give someone dignity, looking at a micro

[Chloe Brown]:

home to then move them out of the shelter and then... from the micro home

[Chloe Brown]:

to the apartment. So yeah, it's a lot, but I want more of us to be involved

[Chloe Brown]:

in it because I'd rather have my taxes building apartments for people with

[Chloe Brown]:

disabilities because I might become disabled one day. Like, you know what

[Chloe Brown]:

I mean? So it's

[Jessa]:

We

[Chloe Brown]:

really

[Jessa]:

all

[Chloe Brown]:

about,

[Jessa]:

do.

[Chloe Brown]:

yeah, it's really about us building nonprofit housing for each other ourselves

[Chloe Brown]:

and getting involved. And it goes back to the active stakeholder role because

[Chloe Brown]:

Parkdale has land trusts, they have 85 properties. It can be done, but will

[Chloe Brown]:

you or will you not participate?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I didn't know they had 85. That's news to me. I know about the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Parkdale Community

[Chloe Brown]:

It's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Land

[Chloe Brown]:

85

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Trust. I used to live

[Chloe Brown]:

units,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

in P-

[Chloe Brown]:

I believe, in total, but they're buying up these properties with help from the

[Chloe Brown]:

Multi-Unit Residential Acquisition Fund at the city level and the Housing Accelerator

[Chloe Brown]:

Fund that's available at the federal government level. And it's really the

[Chloe Brown]:

tenants pushing it and then pushing gourd perks. So the information's out there

[Chloe Brown]:

on

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Yeah.

[Chloe Brown]:

the internet. Will you look for it? Will you go and push your counselor like

[Chloe Brown]:

he's your H&R Block accountant that owes you money?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Well, I mean that right there, like that to me is a very good

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

example of something that we need a lot more of. I think one of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

the problems that we see is, you know, Parkdale has their community

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

line trust, Kensington Market has a very similar thing as well. These

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

are communities that are kind of unique as far as Toronto goes.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Not all communities are as organized.

[Jessa]:

yet.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

It's not the same everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess like What

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

do you do outside of those communities? How do you, how do you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

start those kinds of projects? How do we make that happen? What

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

can we do?

[Jessa]:

That's like a whole new episode Santiago.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Yeah, that is a whole yeah, I guess

[Jessa]:

That's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

that's

[Jessa]:

a

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

just

[Jessa]:

big

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

that's

[Jessa]:

question

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

just what

[Jessa]:

for

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I think.

[Jessa]:

Chloe

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Right?

[Jessa]:

man.

[Chloe Brown]:

Well,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Yeah.

[Chloe Brown]:

it's not

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I just

[Chloe Brown]:

that complicated because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

that's what

[Chloe Brown]:

like

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I'm looking for. I guess.

[Jessa]:

Hahahaha

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Yeah.

[Chloe Brown]:

Parkdale answers your emails. Ask them. Ask them like, can we meet up? Can

[Chloe Brown]:

you host something for my community? And this is where I don't know why Torontonians

[Chloe Brown]:

are so afraid of each other. If you ask me something, I will send you like

[Chloe Brown]:

a whole two page summary. Like I'm about that life. We, we live in a city

[Chloe Brown]:

with some of the most academically driven people in the Western world. Nerd it

[Chloe Brown]:

up with them. Take them out for coffee. Like we love to speak

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I get-

[Chloe Brown]:

about our habits.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I guess

[Chloe Brown]:

So

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

really

[Chloe Brown]:

sorry, go ahead.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

what I didn't mention was kind of maybe like the assumption behind

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

my question, which was kind of this disconnect that we're seeing

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

where you know like you mentioned earlier you know like talking

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

to our friends, talking to people and that's one thing that I've been

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

thinking a lot about is how that That's something that people really

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

don't have, you know, I've, I've gone around Toronto. I've done my

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

fair share of organizing it. And the problem is just how disconnected

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

people are. And, and I know like none of, I don't have, I don't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

have the answers and I don't expect like any one person to have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

all the answers, but I just, I guess that that's where that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

was coming from was just how do we replicate these things? Because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I, I, I don't, I don't know how to do it. in places that are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

so disconnected and I guess That's one of the good things about

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

Being able to like have these campaigns and running for mayor's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

is like showing people that Highlighting those those things that are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

that need to be highlighted highlighting those victories highlighting what

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

actually works and Yeah, no, that's just

[Chloe Brown]:

So,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

where I was coming from there. I don't really have a question

[Chloe Brown]:

yeah.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I guess to end it off but

[Chloe Brown]:

Well, this

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

That's

[Chloe Brown]:

time

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

just what's

[Chloe Brown]:

around,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

on my mind

[Chloe Brown]:

this time around I'm using like my daytime to have these policy chats followed

[Chloe Brown]:

by concerts in the evening. because I want people to realize like the things that

[Chloe Brown]:

we're talking about, they trickle down into this, like your ability to party,

[Chloe Brown]:

your ability to go out and actually enjoy yourself after having a tough conversation.

[Chloe Brown]:

And yeah, this is where I'm really going a little different because it's like

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm hosting events during Pride Week to talk about queer spaces, followed by

[Chloe Brown]:

parties in the evening because queer spaces are disappearing. And I really

[Chloe Brown]:

want to drive it. home to people that like this is what you're fighting for.

[Chloe Brown]:

The ability to go out on these nights safely, the ability to enjoy yourself,

[Chloe Brown]:

these are all political, you know what I mean? And our conversation during

[Chloe Brown]:

Pride Week is like a village everywhere because church and young shouldn't

[Chloe Brown]:

be the only place where queer people should feel safe. It should be the entire

[Chloe Brown]:

city. Why isn't it like that? And this is where... I want people to have

[Chloe Brown]:

these challenging conversations, but also follow it up with like, go out, you

[Chloe Brown]:

know, like, take the ease off and remind yourself like this is what you're

[Chloe Brown]:

fighting for, the right to be with your friends, the right to go out and

[Chloe Brown]:

be safe. And that's where we demystify politics, because it's really not

[Chloe Brown]:

just a bunch of old white philosophers that talked about the way the world should

[Chloe Brown]:

be. It's you being alive right now. in spite of all the odds that were thrown

[Chloe Brown]:

your way, in spite of all the circumstances that your family were given in

[Chloe Brown]:

prior decades, you know what I mean? You are walking living, breathing politics.

[Chloe Brown]:

Own what is yours. And that goes back to like my campaign where it's like Reclaim

[Chloe Brown]:

Toronto, own what is yours, because a lot of people do not feel like they own their

[Chloe Brown]:

own lives right now. What would it mean for you to feel ownership over your

[Chloe Brown]:

life? And these are... philosophical questions that I tried to introduce into like,

[Chloe Brown]:

you know, your basic conversation about did you see that HBO show? Because the

[Chloe Brown]:

truth is art is there to encourage you to take stock of your own reality. And

[Chloe Brown]:

we're exposed to art all the time. Do we ask each other our feelings about

[Chloe Brown]:

it? No, because no one wants to be stupid or look that certain way but like

[Chloe Brown]:

risk it, you know? Risk being vulnerable, risk being honest because the truth

[Chloe Brown]:

is there's a bunch of idiots out here. being honest about the worst thoughts.

[Chloe Brown]:

Like Tucker Carlson was just getting paid to think, like speak his worth's

[Jessa]:

Oh, I thought she

[Chloe Brown]:

truth.

[Jessa]:

meant Brad Bradford.

[Chloe Brown]:

I will leave Bradley squared out of this for today. This is where I really

[Chloe Brown]:

challenge people to be honest with one another because I can't help you if

[Chloe Brown]:

you're not honest that you're suffering. You know what I mean? And this is

[Chloe Brown]:

where. we as the working class have to unlearn a lot of things because we

[Chloe Brown]:

really internalize the fact that we don't wanna be seen as victims. And we internalize

[Chloe Brown]:

these ideas of like, oh, it's a dog eat dog world out there when we've never

[Chloe Brown]:

seen anything like that living in Canada. I've never seen a dog eat dog thing,

[Chloe Brown]:

because why? We take care of our dogs. So we really have to challenge our

[Chloe Brown]:

own perceived narratives of where we stand in. like the political reality, like,

[Chloe Brown]:

are you as powerless as you think you are? Because I believe that. Look at me

[Chloe Brown]:

now, you know, $200 and yelling at a senior later. And that's the thing. I

[Chloe Brown]:

like, it's just another day for Chloe Brown, but it's meant a whole lot for

[Chloe Brown]:

a bunch of people that I don't know. And that's me risking people knowing

[Chloe Brown]:

like, yeah, I'm a weird wonky oddball, but like I love the people of Toronto.

[Chloe Brown]:

And I'm willing to fight whoever comes up and threatens Toronto because I'm

[Chloe Brown]:

like, you're not my kids, but like, I consider you all my kids, my brothers

[Chloe Brown]:

and sisters. And you know, mom said, take care of you while she's out. And

[Chloe Brown]:

that's really the attitude that I'm bringing to this where it's like, parents

[Chloe Brown]:

have left us home alone. It's our job to hold down the fort. If you're not

[Chloe Brown]:

about holding down the fort, go to your room, you know? And that's the attitude

[Chloe Brown]:

I'm taking. And it feels so familiar to so many people. because I'm honest about

[Chloe Brown]:

it. Like I'm your big little sister and I want what's best for you. And

[Chloe Brown]:

the more I'm honest about that really strange feeling I feel inside, the more

[Chloe Brown]:

people that come out to vote, the more progress moves forward, but I have

[Chloe Brown]:

to be honest about it. So yeah, be raw and honest with your friends that like

[Chloe Brown]:

you're struggling with mental health, your finances, that you're afraid that

[Chloe Brown]:

your parents are sick and you won't be able to house them because do your

[Chloe Brown]:

friends really know you? You know what I mean? Outside of partying with

[Chloe Brown]:

you, do your friends really know you? Are they willing to go with you to your

[Chloe Brown]:

counselor's office to talk about this issue? And that is the measure of friendship

[Chloe Brown]:

that I have now, where it's like, my friends are like, Chloe, I want to knock

[Chloe Brown]:

doors for you. I believe in you. And like, that is one of the purest forms of

[Chloe Brown]:

friendship that I'm experiencing right now. And that's why I stay in Toronto,

[Chloe Brown]:

because it's like strangers are like. The night John Tory resigned, someone

[Chloe Brown]:

bought me four website domains. Someone had thousands of dollars waiting for

[Chloe Brown]:

me. I had no choice about running in this by-election. I was called up off the

[Chloe Brown]:

bench. So, you know, I'm on the field playing for Team Toronto, and that's

[Chloe Brown]:

not going to change. So, yeah, just be ready to be called out and to be called

[Chloe Brown]:

up.

[Jessa]:

Well, thank you for that, Chloe. I did want to mention that when we reached out

[Jessa]:

to book an interview with you, your campaign manager was not just enthusiastic

[Jessa]:

about, yes, of course, sounds amazing, but can we turn this into a public event where

[Jessa]:

people are allowed to come and ask questions? They wanted it to be as accessible

[Jessa]:

as possible. And that was really heartwarming. We don't experience that very often from politicians.

[Jessa]:

they do try to maximize their campaign spots and their time. I get that. But it wasn't

[Jessa]:

framed that way. And I just, that really sat well with me. So kudos to your campaign

[Jessa]:

manager, Salom, because it was just a pleasure kind of, it spoke to, I think, your

[Jessa]:

campaign. It was a pleasure to work with them. And the spirit of what you're intending

[Jessa]:

to do came through in just the most brief interactions I had through an email.

[Jessa]:

And... The reaction we got online to from folks is always mixed, but I think folks

[Jessa]:

are generally excited to learn more about what's driving you. They can go to your

[Jessa]:

website, they can read your policies, they can agree or disagree and nitpick them

[Jessa]:

and improve them or whatnot. But getting to know you is something a little bit different.

[Jessa]:

And I think we kind of got there today. Definitely

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

know your motivations. And I got a piece of advice from the Twitterverse for you

[Jessa]:

that just came in.

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah.

[Jessa]:

says Chloe Brown should legally change her name to John Tory just for the election

[Jessa]:

and we might survive the decade. So you've got fans out there that are desperate

[Jessa]:

for you to win this one, my friend. So thanks

[Chloe Brown]:

Hehehe

[Jessa]:

for taking the time out of your campaign day and your work day and

[Chloe Brown]:

Absolutely.

[Jessa]:

chatting with us.

[Chloe Brown]:

Thank you. Um, I was actually really excited when you reached out because

[Chloe Brown]:

this is about the blueprints for a disruption. Like I want you guys to become

[Chloe Brown]:

little shit disturbers too because Yeah, I remember this Toronto Star article

[Chloe Brown]:

writer calling me a shit disturber, Reg Cohn, and he said

[Jessa]:

Oh.

[Chloe Brown]:

this to me at a meeting and I was just like, oh like you think I'm a shit

[Chloe Brown]:

disturber now. Wait. Wait, I promise you. chaos.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]:

I'm sorry.

[Chloe Brown]:

So

[Jessa]:

life goals.

[Chloe Brown]:

yeah, that's the thing. It's just like I'm motivated by the ton of people

[Chloe Brown]:

who told me that like, you shouldn't be here. Like you're a little too much. Like

[Chloe Brown]:

you need to wait your turn. Nope. I did. And now here I am. The unpaid

[Jessa]:

I

[Chloe Brown]:

interns.

[Jessa]:

think we need a little too much now. I think we're due for too much.

[Chloe Brown]:

Yeah, but

[Jessa]:

Thank you

[Chloe Brown]:

that's

[Jessa]:

again, Claude.

[Chloe Brown]:

thank you. Um,

[Jessa]:

Thank you.

[Chloe Brown]:

do I just like, sorry, do I just sign off? I don't know

[Jessa]:

No,

[Chloe Brown]:

how this

[Jessa]:

I'm going

[Chloe Brown]:

works.

[Jessa]:

to stop the recording here, but don't run away.

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About the Podcast

Blueprints of Disruption
A Podcast for Rabble Rousers
Blueprints of Disruption is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, organizers and rabble rousers. This weekly podcast, hosted by Jessa McLean and Santiago Helou Quintero, features in-depth discussions that explore different ways to challenge capitalism, decolonize spaces and create movements on the ground. Together we will disrupt the status quo one episode at a time.

About your hosts

Jessa McLean

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Host, Jessa McLean is a socialist political and community organizer from Ontario.

Santiago Helou Quintero

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Producer