Shifting Gears: Climate Justice Toronto
Decades of climate organizing hasn't really produced many victories to feed off of. Why?
Climate Justice Toronto took a hard look at the environmentalist movement, studied Labour organizing models and decided to undertake a major shift in their work. One that focused on actually challenging points of power while building their own.
Hear how they went from a class-based climate organization to one that is almost entirely dedicated to tenant organizing, without compromising the end goal of defending the planet.
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Transcript
The people united will never be defeated.
Speaker:Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean, and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints
Speaker:of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, examining
Speaker:power structures, and sharing the success stories from the grassroots. Through these discussions,
Speaker:we hope to provide folks with the tools and the inspiration they need to start to dismantle
Speaker:capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring about the political revolution that we know
Speaker:we need. And I think if we and the climate movement want to be able to fight against that, we really
Speaker:need to organize the majority of society, the working class, the people who really run the
Speaker:economy when it comes down to it, but are all atomized and isolated and kept apart to be
Speaker:able to stand together and really fight back. At the end of the day, it's about who in our
Speaker:society benefits from the resources we have and who gets to make those decisions. And that's
Speaker:all the same fight. You just heard Aniket, and he was referring to a recent and decisive shift
Speaker:Climate Justice Toronto took after re-examining their work and that of the climate justice
Speaker:movement in general. They wondered why, despite all the years and resources spent on the climate
Speaker:movement, we hadn't won yet. They looked at what might be holding us back. And the answer
Speaker:they came to, help them refocus, change gears. And in the end, be more effective. So strangely
Speaker:enough, our next two guests from Climate Justice Toronto won't actually be talking about climate
Speaker:justice all that much, but they will talk about how to get us there. Both of them do a really
Speaker:great job explaining just why. You know, when our time is so limited and the fight in front
Speaker:of us is clearly ongoing, they decided to turn their focus to tenant organizing and why they
Speaker:think that will actually be the most effective way to protect our planet. Can you introduce
Speaker:yourself, please? Hi, I'm Violet. I am one of the two chairs on CJTO's housing organization.
Speaker:You know, I'm sort of one of the people that like sets up stuff like meetings for us and
Speaker:stuff like that, and a little bit of like strategic direction, but really we're quite a democratic
Speaker:organization. Kind of everybody does everything. Yeah, I've been there before. Aniket, what
Speaker:about you? Yeah, hi, my name is Aniket. I'm one of the two co-chairs of the steering committee
Speaker:at Climate Justice Toronto right now. I've been part of CJTO for a couple of years now since
Speaker:2021. CJTO was founded originally in 2019. It was a really different kind of political moment
Speaker:back then, I think it came up. when there's all of the excitement around the climate strikes,
Speaker:the climate election in Canada, there's very public narrative around like, we only have
Speaker:like 12 years left, we need a Green New Deal, we need to decarbonize the economy. All of
Speaker:that's still true, but I think it was really kind of the centerpiece of our political discourse
Speaker:at that point. And so it was founded then through a lot of activists who came to the Power Shift
Speaker:conference in Ottawa at that time, eventually got involved in the climate strikes, sweats,
Speaker:sweat and protests, Black Lives Matter, kind of took a bit of a dip through the pandemic
Speaker:and then started in earnest again back in 2022. And I've seen it really grow and evolve as
Speaker:an organization and very happy. And it's kind of current. campaign, which we're going to
Speaker:talk a lot about today. When I reached out to you, you know, you guys are called Climate
Speaker:Justice Toronto. And I was surprised in your reply, not that you didn't agree to come on
Speaker:because here you are. But you're like, yes, we would love to come on. However, just so
Speaker:you know, we've kind of shifted in our focus a little bit. And let's unpack. Can we unpack
Speaker:that before we get into the details of that campaign you're so excited about? Maybe I can
Speaker:start off by giving us some of the high level and then maybe Violet, if you wanna get into
Speaker:the weeds after. Yeah, so I think the kind of point we've been at for a while and over the
Speaker:last few years is really thinking about the kind of wins and also losses of the climate
Speaker:movement. I think that when we look at the kind of things in 2019 that the climate movement
Speaker:was demanding. I think we have to be honest with ourselves that we've achieved very little.
Speaker:At most, we've had the carbon tax and some decarbonization measures. I don't even think the carbon tax
Speaker:is that great as policy anyway, but that's a separate conversation. But there's no Green
Speaker:New Deal. There's no mass expansion of housing. There's no winding down of the fossil fuel
Speaker:industry. There's no mass expansion of transit. You know, like... We're on the eve of a conservative
Speaker:majority government that's probably gonna wash away any of the very modest wins that have
Speaker:happened. You're saying this all with a smile on your face. It sounds very doom and gloom,
Speaker:but don't worry, we're getting there. We're getting there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry.
Speaker:Just wait. But I think on one hand, we haven't won those material things, but I think there
Speaker:has been a meaningful narrative shift. I mean, people do talk about inequality, about the
Speaker:climate, and people really, I think, have started to see a lot of these issues. together a lot
Speaker:more and also started to be a bit more critical of, you know, why haven't we won yet? I think
Speaker:there was this, a couple weeks ago, or maybe it was two weeks ago, there was actually a
Speaker:piece in The National Observer by Seth Klein, who's a kind of prominent figure in like the
Speaker:NGO left world. And you know, I think that kind of shows, and it was critical of the climate
Speaker:movement, you know, it was like, I think the title was literally something like we need
Speaker:to change course or like we're doomed. Like the climate movement is not succeeding as it's.
Speaker:And you know, I think that was also, the piece was also really revealing because on one hand,
Speaker:it really, I think addressed a lot of how we haven't gone big enough, we haven't gone far
Speaker:enough. But you know, I think if you like hit control F and like look for power or working
Speaker:class or something, you won't find it in that piece. And I think that's also revealing of
Speaker:like how the climate movement. I think has not developed a good enough theory of power and
Speaker:really why it is we're in this kind of mess here and how we've landed here after decades.
Speaker:And how to also get out of that, because I think there's a lot to draw on historically. I mean,
Speaker:the healthcare system we have, as much of a mess it is right now, it didn't come from nowhere.
Speaker:You know, our modest social security, modest welfare state, that didn't come from nowhere.
Speaker:You know, there are... real serious labor organizing efforts around a century ago that really laid
Speaker:the foundation for a lot of that. And I think, you know, at CJTO, I think the big kind of
Speaker:shift we've made and has really driven our kind of approach to building our campaigns now is
Speaker:that if we want to win, we need to build power because the reason that we are in this mess
Speaker:is because of the people with power, people who run our society. they get to make all the
Speaker:decisions. You know, they get to expand the fossil fuel industry. They get to hike up rents.
Speaker:They get to build housing for profit. They get to decide everything because they have all
Speaker:of the power. And I think if we and the climate movement want to be able to fight against that,
Speaker:we really need to organize the majority of society, the working class, the people who really run
Speaker:the economy when it comes down to it, but are all atomized and isolated and kept apart to
Speaker:be able to stand together and really fight. And perhaps you felt like organizing strictly
Speaker:around, not that you folks were ever very narrow minded about what you would get involved in,
Speaker:but just mobilizing around climate justice wasn't effective enough to mobilize the working class
Speaker:in the way that they needed to be. I think it's not even, it's that and more, you know, I think
Speaker:it's that. you need to be able to mobilize people to action. But I think we also have to realize
Speaker:that a lot of people are not quote unquote political in the same way. And unless we're really organizing
Speaker:and bringing new people into the movement and bringing new people out to take action, we
Speaker:just won't have the power to win at the end of the day. And again, I'm not really saying
Speaker:anything novel here. It's like the classic. labor organizing, movement building playbook.
Speaker:You have to build a bigger constituency that's willing to be confident and confrontational.
Speaker:And that comes through years and years of organizing, but you have to be willing to grow and really
Speaker:pull people in and be really smart about that. Yeah, I'd also throw in that I think, you know,
Speaker:one of the wonderful things about climate change, to put it that way, is that it touches every
Speaker:aspect of society, right? And... that includes sort of like real estate speculation for like
Speaker:farmland and who gets to like own that land. Just kind of all of these various different
Speaker:aspects where really like our entire kind of like productive and capital accumulation system
Speaker:is broken and is kind of like what's at fault, right? And so I think you can just kind of
Speaker:seize the beast from like any end and start like attacking it there and just kind of like
Speaker:get political. political winds that, like Anika was saying, kind of like build power for like
Speaker:a broader constituency without necessarily having to go to people with like a climate agenda,
Speaker:right? And it remains a climate agenda because you're just like attacking the powers that
Speaker:have made things like this. And so how did this knowledge, right? And this kind of tactical
Speaker:awareness shift your focus into tenant organizing, which is, you know. where we were teasing the
Speaker:audience. That's where we're going, by the way. We just kind of found ourselves working with
Speaker:different organizations. One of them was the New York Southwest and Tenants Union. And I
Speaker:think we had some very formative moments with them. They're contagious. You know, I mean,
Speaker:I think me talking to them a few times now. And when I emailed you, I talked about you
Speaker:guys give off really kind of tenant class vibes, or kind of that reawakening of how we can imagine
Speaker:ourselves as a working class. And yeah, Bruno has that impact on me as well. Yeah, they're
Speaker:the best, right? They're very, I think they're militant. I think they're very like pragmatic
Speaker:in terms of what needs to get done and organizing people. And so I think being in contact with
Speaker:them, there was an eviction defense that happened. in December that maybe some people kind of
Speaker:like followed on socials. That I think was like a really formative moment for CJTO of just
Speaker:like understanding, oh, we can win here, right? Like we can win in this arena and there's like
Speaker:energy and there's people that are like willing to work with us to find solutions. And it's,
Speaker:you know, this is kind of weird, but it's a little bit more green field than like labor
Speaker:organizing. And so people aren't as inoculated. The adversary isn't as prepared. I, you can
Speaker:kind of like get these wins in ways where like, if you're trying to do labor organizing, I
Speaker:think is a little bit more difficult. And so I think we just kind of like entered the new
Speaker:year with an idea of how do we extend, um, the New York Southwest and Tenants Union capacity
Speaker:into sort of leveraging the context that they have to like organize on their behalf. Right.
Speaker:And. Once we started doing that, I think we learned that we had all of these kind of like
Speaker:skills that are, that are very transferable to sort of doing organizing, right? And part
Speaker:of it is just like knocking on doors, talking to tenants, recruiting people, sort of doing
Speaker:this kind of like, you know, face-to-face like explanation work, this kind of like agitation
Speaker:work. But there's also just like undifferentiated. sort of like clerical work, right? For me to
Speaker:knock on your door, I need like a printed sheet that you can sign onto, and then we need to
Speaker:take your email address and your phone number somewhere and put it in a spreadsheet so we
Speaker:can contact you. And those are all things that we can all do as sort of like CJTO members,
Speaker:and in so doing kind of make these organizations happen in the buildings, right? And I think
Speaker:that's... you know, we've sort of been discovering over the course of this year, um, the extent
Speaker:to which we can actually given a few kind of like tenants, um, in the building that want
Speaker:to organize, show up and work with them and, and really make it happen for them. So would
Speaker:you say that you're almost taking that York Southwestern model, although they wouldn't
Speaker:take credit solely for creating the model, but that you witnessed and trying to replicate
Speaker:it as well as bolster the work of that wonderful group? Yeah, I think definitely. I think both
Speaker:YSW and us, I think, just want to find ways to engage people such that they spontaneously
Speaker:want to organize in these ways. And they want to form tenant associations in their building
Speaker:and resist things with landlords and network with other tenant associations and find points
Speaker:of solidarity. If you and I have the same landlord, then it's in our interest to work together,
Speaker:even if we're not faced with the exact same maintenance issues or rent issues or whatever
Speaker:it is, right? And so I think, yeah, we definitely are just like looking for ways to sort of extend
Speaker:that model geographically throughout the city to sort of really, yeah, just use our people
Speaker:in the most efficient ways to make these organizations work and be able to resist landlords. Is there
Speaker:any pocket of the city that's really untouched when it comes to tenant organizing? Or would
Speaker:you say, you know, all neighborhoods have examples to look to? Honestly, I'd say a lot of the
Speaker:city is not organized. I think like, I think that there's- Not. Yeah, yeah. You know, I
Speaker:think there's, there's a lot of community groups in the city and a lot of like them do tenant
Speaker:organizing. And I think that's great. And I think that's really important, but- I think
Speaker:every group in the city is quite small, at most in a few buildings. There isn't a big city-wide,
Speaker:province-wide national movement that they can tie in too easily and work together on. And
Speaker:I think that on one hand, that's really daunting because we're in buildings, York Southwestern
Speaker:is in buildings, there's other groups in the city in buildings. And they're building up
Speaker:lots of exciting organizing and power as well, but we're very small. You know, I think we
Speaker:have to be very honest with ourselves that we don't have too, too much power and that there's
Speaker:still a lot we can do. I think on the other hand, you know, and part of why in CJTO we
Speaker:really dived into this housing campaign is because I think it really suits the political moment
Speaker:as well. Like, you know, I think the two big issues that people will talk about right now
Speaker:are either like the war in Gaza or Like, I think those are the kind of two captivating progressive
Speaker:issues right now. And you know, there's a lot of organizing on the former, but I think there's
Speaker:a lot less housing organizing going on. You know, I don't think there are real, like, I
Speaker:don't think there's enough, like, effort to build, like, real widespread tenant unions.
Speaker:There's not, like, big campaigns going around in, like, every neighborhood of the city. or
Speaker:the province or the country. But everyone talks about housing. Everyone's rent is too high.
Speaker:Cost of living is awful. No one can afford a place to live. And I think that also really
Speaker:gives us as organizers a very exciting opportunity, because I think as much as we have all our
Speaker:idealism, it is always a really hard sell sometimes, especially if your issue that you're working
Speaker:around isn't in the limelight. But housing is, like you don't need to convince someone that
Speaker:their living situation is bad and too expensive because it is, like it sucks right now. I remember
Speaker:one time I was canvassing in York Southwestern when the rent strikes were really going strong
Speaker:and I knocked on some person's door, she didn't answer. I go to like another part of the floor
Speaker:and suddenly this lady's chasing after me and I'm worried because I'm like, oh, she's gonna
Speaker:call the cops on me. She's like, where's the Red Strike card? Like, I want to join right
Speaker:now. And it's like, you know, it's like such a, like you don't expect that, but I think
Speaker:it really speaks to kind of the, both despair and the opportunity that there is right now.
Speaker:Oh, I totally get it. I get so excited when I think of tenant organizing and I know like
Speaker:Acorn Ontario is doing a lot, but can you maybe explain what it means to be in a building,
Speaker:you know, for folks who aren't savvy perhaps all the, what tenant organizing is. So when
Speaker:you say, you know, organizations are small, they're only in a couple of buildings. What's
Speaker:that, what does that mean to be in a building? Yeah, so I think ultimately, you know, individual
Speaker:buildings have individual issues that they're facing that can be sort of like maintenance
Speaker:things, the above the guideline increases that landlords can sometimes put in. And so I think
Speaker:to be in a building, right, is to have a presence where you're able to mobilize tenants against
Speaker:those issues. Right. And that takes, I think, many, many forms, but I think the main thing
Speaker:that, that we kind of like rely on is the idea that there's a few tenants in the building
Speaker:that are willing to put in the work, to talk to their neighbors, to sort of like. Feel them
Speaker:out for where they're at and then be able to determine as, as really like a collective of
Speaker:tenants. what their course of action is going to be vis-a-vis these issues. Sometimes that
Speaker:happens with our advice and involvement, and we suggest things like put together petitions
Speaker:for the landlord, find ways to pressure them in the media, all of these kind of political
Speaker:pressure tactics that we can employ to go against the landlord. But really, I think there's like
Speaker:a broad spectrum of activities that this entails, right? Not just kind of like that political
Speaker:pressure, but also just having like a social presence, right? And being able to throw like
Speaker:a little ice cream social for the neighbors, mixers for people to just like interact with
Speaker:one another and sort of have this kind of community there, right? I think ultimately what we're
Speaker:trying to build is just. buildings where people have strong links to one another and are able
Speaker:to show up for one another, whether that be in very like personal, hey, I need help with
Speaker:this kinds of ways, or just like, oh, they filed another above the guideline increase, what
Speaker:are we gonna do about it? I think a lot of organizers, especially if they've worked on political campaigns,
Speaker:will recognize that model a little bit of having a building lead or just starting with a singular
Speaker:point person. in a building to help mobilize to whichever end. You know, in an election,
Speaker:it might be just to knock on their door on E-Day to remind them to go vote. But in this case,
Speaker:it's a little more personal. But it's just to, I think, demonstrate that it can start with
Speaker:one person in a building with a model and some assistance. So definitely exciting when you
Speaker:think, not to diminish your work, but how easy it was. could be to replicate this over and
Speaker:over again, especially when you know how excited people get when they see it being done, especially
Speaker:when they get to see victories or pushbacks against landlords. I don't know, I think everyone
Speaker:likes a good fuck the landlord story, honestly, because I've rented many, many times throughout
Speaker:my life. I've never had a good landlord once. I'm not, even now it's getting horrible with
Speaker:folks who can't even name. who owns the property, like who to deal with. It's a numbered company.
Speaker:It seems so formidable, but not until you see people doing it. So I can also understand that
Speaker:proxy to York Southwestern's resistance against that particular eviction. We had Bruno on to
Speaker:tell that story and I watched it on the Instagram Live. I think I alternated between your live.
Speaker:and York Southwestens live, honestly, on that night. And Santiago was there, so I was trying
Speaker:to tell him what was happening before he got there and everything. So I do remember using
Speaker:you as a resource, so thank you. And I got really energized, and then to hear the whole story
Speaker:and it was a victory that night. Yeah, it goes, I think, back to what Anna Kitt was saying
Speaker:at the very beginning in measuring the wins and losses. And it's hard not to gravitate
Speaker:towards what seems to be a proven model. But are you folks going to have to change your
Speaker:name? Have you abandoned? And I abandoned sounds so harsh because we do talk like and you can
Speaker:develop on how building a tenant class, a working class is part of the climate justice struggle.
Speaker:But, you know, it kind of seems tactically you've really shifted away from that. Is that is that
Speaker:accurate? And are you going to have to change your name and all that? You know, maybe just
Speaker:before I get to that, I do think your point about how there's a lot to rely on here is
Speaker:really true here. I think that it can feel very daunting to think about, how do I organize
Speaker:a building? How do I build up the housing movement? And so on and so forth. But what we're doing
Speaker:is not new. A lot of the methods we take, we just take straight out of the labor organizing
Speaker:playbook. I think many of us are familiar with Jane McAlevey's style of organizing, and there's
Speaker:so many others, like LaborNotes has many methods. And all of those methods still apply when we
Speaker:talk about going into a building. It's the same as going into a workplace. Instead of confronting
Speaker:the boss, you're confronting the landlord. Instead of building a majority of workers, you're building
Speaker:a majority of tenants. It is really similar in that way. I think maybe the only maybe difference
Speaker:is sometimes it like a building campaign can be much longer I think, you know, a workplace
Speaker:campaign because you know, maybe there's 20, 30 people sometimes and unions are illegal,
Speaker:like protected process like that can move much faster sometimes but it's not, it's not, we're
Speaker:not like making something from scratch like there's a lot to go off of. And I think that
Speaker:does give us a lot to stand on. But I think also, it is a conversation all the time in
Speaker:CJTO of, how much of a climate org are we? I think a lot of us see ourselves broadly identifying
Speaker:with building the working class, with a more socialist movement. But I don't think those
Speaker:things are exclusive. I think to Violent's point earlier, I think one of the- failures of the
Speaker:climate movement at points was to kind of look too narrowly toward climate itself. And I think
Speaker:that really started to change around 2019 and 2018 with the kind of rhetoric around the Green
Speaker:New Deal. Because when we talk about, say, the fossil fuel industry, housing, transit, social
Speaker:security, and so on and so forth, or social welfare. At the end of the day, it's about
Speaker:who in our society benefits from the resources we have and who gets to make those decisions.
Speaker:And that's all the same fight. Even in building campaigns we have, sometimes there are issues
Speaker:about overheating, sometimes there's issues about flooding and protections for that, and
Speaker:the amount of regulations that exist for these things. So even if every single issue is not
Speaker:a climate issue... At the same time, those climate issues come up naturally, and the kind of power
Speaker:that we have to build through these campaigns and building up the housing movement is gonna
Speaker:directly benefit all the fights of the left more broadly. So, I think it's an open question
Speaker:where we go, but I think the one lesson I'll take from all the history books I've read is
Speaker:it's better when the left works together than splinters apart. Yeah, and I will say, I think,
Speaker:this allows us to be more of a big tent kind of movement. I think however we kind of cut
Speaker:it, climate is gonna long-term be the issue of our lifetimes. It's such a big problem,
Speaker:it's so totalizing, and it affects so many aspects of society that it is just gonna be a huge
Speaker:fight. And so I think even things like, well, because of the climate catastrophe, now there
Speaker:are... more asylum seekers and that puts pressure on housing. And so how do we resolve that in
Speaker:a way that's humane and actually functional and doesn't tear apart our societies? And I
Speaker:think having a bit of a climate, maybe not a focus, but a sort of impetus from this concept
Speaker:of climate justice is sort of like helps us be. more aware of just everything in general.
Speaker:I think it helps us jump into different aspects of the fight in a very generic way without
Speaker:having to worry about, oh, but we're a housing org. Can we really do labor organizing? Can
Speaker:we really do work around Palestine? This kind of thing. I think like one of the key points
Speaker:that you folks have made there is that... that understanding of where power is and how badly
Speaker:that is needed in the climate justice. Although housing can be more appealing because politically
Speaker:people are talking about it now, or because it's such a necessity for folks, it's such
Speaker:a fever pitch, you know, materially that you can't not talk about it. But in that same sense
Speaker:that when we organize... from a capitalist model and like fail to change that. We end up with
Speaker:these market-based solutions, like the carbon tax that we sit and waste and bicker over when
Speaker:it's kind of here and neither are there. But often, often even the victories that are secured
Speaker:are market-based and that just prolongs the problem. I know you know that, right? Probably
Speaker:the audience knows that too. But when you see how some climate justice campaigns are, structured,
Speaker:it seems like they don't know it or they know it, but it's just too daunting to perhaps try
Speaker:to fight capitalism and climate justice at the same time, you know, as a larger organization.
Speaker:So it seems like you've always, I mean, your Instagram describes the group as a membership
Speaker:led democratic organization fighting for transformative class based climate action. So that class-based,
Speaker:always class-based, but it has to have that consciousness as well. And you seem to have
Speaker:taken it upon yourselves to raise the consciousness of the community. You folks held a socialist
Speaker:school. For sure. I think the thing to always keep in mind is like, as organizers, our real
Speaker:ability is to intervene in working class struggles and build up power and really... show people
Speaker:the power that they have when they stand together and show them that they can really build up
Speaker:that confidence and really confront power that their boss, their landlord and things that
Speaker:they really toil and suffer under. But I think the other side of that, and I think this is
Speaker:really important for us both in CJITO, but I think a bigger lesson for the left is that
Speaker:we also need to have something we're working toward. You know, it can't just be that we're
Speaker:against this, we're against that. You know, we also wanna have like social housing for
Speaker:all. We also wanna have like great places and neighborhoods to live in. We also wanna have
Speaker:like a very livable economy and livable society. And I think that was, you know, the socialist
Speaker:summer school we had this year was the kind of second iteration of that. And you know,
Speaker:I think it was a bit driven by, you know, we wanna bring it more. into the organizing we're
Speaker:doing right now. Last year when we did it, it was very exciting and fun, but I think it was
Speaker:also a bit more removed from any organizing going on. I think it just ended up being more
Speaker:of a discussion group, which was valuable in some ways. But this time, you know, we made
Speaker:an effort to bring out more community members, more organizers, some tenants from New York
Speaker:Southwestern. And so what we ended up doing, and Bruno, who you had on... a previous podcast
Speaker:helped was one of the main organizers of that as well as a collaboration between us and the
Speaker:Tenant Union in York Southwest. We basically just over three sessions walked through what
Speaker:does it mean to be a tenant? What are the kind of stereotypes people have? What are landlords?
Speaker:What are the stereotypes people have of that? Why is there inequality? Why do you identify
Speaker:with each other? What do you... see like why the landlords get to make all of these decisions
Speaker:and kind of walk through that as a group with people from different life experiences, different
Speaker:levels of political understanding, but nonetheless, you know, all sharing this kind of common idea
Speaker:that we have more together that we share as tenants and, you know, people who want a better
Speaker:society and that we can all see that it isn't fair. that a couple of landlords and developers
Speaker:basically have to dictate the terms of the housing economy. And then, you know, really starting
Speaker:to think about both from the experiences in New York Southwestern, but also in other parts
Speaker:of the world and history as well, like how do you really fight back against that? What was
Speaker:the reception like from participants? I think it was really good. You know, I think it was
Speaker:like a small group of like 20-ish, 15-ish people, which is like a nice... cozy group to have
Speaker:like a discussion with. And it was good. I think we had a lot of people participate. You know,
Speaker:I think one of the things is that, I think you can really forget this when you're like an
Speaker:organizer and activist, but like a lot of people have not done any kind of community organizing
Speaker:before and aren't always comfortable really talking about their politics and society and
Speaker:the way they feel, even if they have lots of. really well thought out opinions on that. So
Speaker:I think it was really, I could really see the way over a few sessions, which some people
Speaker:who are maybe less experienced, I'm putting that in air quotes, because I think that's
Speaker:a kind of misleading term in some ways, but you know, how they really kind of stepped into
Speaker:their own over like two or three sessions and started to be able to talk more and articulate
Speaker:their ideas more. And also, you know, kind of see as well. that it's not just them. There's
Speaker:a lot of other people in the same boat as them as well, and there's something to do about
Speaker:that. And I really wanna emphasize that, that doesn't come through a school itself. I think
Speaker:the basis of that really comes from the organizing on the ground, but it is nice to be able to
Speaker:then have a nice place to chat and reflect about that. Well, I was going to say, if you're seeing
Speaker:those kinds of experiences, it means you folks were successful in creating. a safe, welcoming
Speaker:space as well as an informative one, because it's, like you say, it's a two-fold project,
Speaker:right? Not to just politicize people, which is like very important, right? It's making
Speaker:those connections. But one can't happen without the other, right? You can't start to share
Speaker:and percolate those discussions if everyone's not kind of feeling like... it's all right.
Speaker:I mean, it's a tough political climate these days. Definitely. Violet, you are a building
Speaker:lead. Did you want to talk about your buildings campaign specifically, and maybe talk about
Speaker:how it went from maybe just you to wherever you folks are at now? Absolutely. So I started
Speaker:organizing the building I live in May. I live in the Davisville area, so sort of like Midtown.
Speaker:And we just started organizing sort of like around an AGI that had been filed and sort
Speaker:of like a number of different things. There's like no AC in the building. And I think as
Speaker:a climate org at first that was like a very. attractive kind of like issue to bring up,
Speaker:right? It was May and we were looking forward to a very hot summer and so just kind of like
Speaker:surfacing this. What's an AGI for folks I don't know? What's an AGI? An AGI is an Above the
Speaker:Guideline Rent Increase. So the government of Ontario sets a guideline that is 2.5% this
Speaker:year that is supposed to be how much they can increase your rent by to
Speaker:If that weren't enough, I guess. And there is a whole process that landlords can go through,
Speaker:or they can file for additional rent increases over the guideline, where ostensibly they have
Speaker:to prove that an investment was made into the building, this ATI that is affecting my building
Speaker:was for a boiler replacement, so there were folks who would have not had hot water had
Speaker:that work not gone in and... The province considers that that's a fair reason to raise our rents,
Speaker:right? Which is obviously a little bit ridiculous because what investment really has been made
Speaker:into the building, the functionality that was there before is still there. The boiler reached
Speaker:its end of life. There's like a greenwashing thing here going on as well, where you make
Speaker:a claim that it's like, well, but we granified the boiler. It uses less energy than it did
Speaker:before. So to save them money in the long term. Indeed, yes, it'll save them money in the long
Speaker:term. And so therefore they should get to charge us more money. And this is kind of the logic
Speaker:that the province operates under, right? So anyway, because I live in the building, I think
Speaker:one thing that we found is that it's easier for me to recruit my neighbors. And so we formed
Speaker:an association. There's several of us now that live in the building involved in the association.
Speaker:So we're just like doing, you know, figuring out how are we going to tackle this AGI thing?
Speaker:What kind of pressure are the tenants in the building comfortable exerting? And how can
Speaker:we bring them along to a militant approach to this? How can we help them understand the kinds
Speaker:of gains that we can make if we're willing to go the full nine yards with organizing this?
Speaker:And then just some very meat and potatoes things that sometimes happen, right? Where it's like,
Speaker:I have a neighbor that has a water leak in her unit, and it has gone on address now for three
Speaker:years, and it's just leaking into her child's bedroom. There's mold on the ceiling, it's
Speaker:a mess. And so that's one person's problem, but as an association, we need to be able to
Speaker:take care of that. So that's sort of like, I think, the kind of like association side of
Speaker:things, the tenant association side of things. From like a CJTO perspective, I am the building
Speaker:lead for the campaign, hey, it's where I live. I have a co-lead that is working with me, that's
Speaker:just a CJTO person doesn't live in the building. And what CJTO kind of like provides is this
Speaker:kind of like undifferentiated labor, right? So boots on the ground to turn off, to knock
Speaker:on doors. It's, we otherwise would have, I think, about three door knockers that live in the
Speaker:building. And it's really, really tough to knock on every door in a building with three people
Speaker:in one night. Um, whereas if we can pull in, you know, five, six CJTO volunteers, that's
Speaker:really super helpful, right? Um, there's kind of like clerical work, data entry, landlord
Speaker:research, all of these tasks that can sort of like be distributed to housing members in a
Speaker:way that supports, um, the association's goals and that kind of like allows us to, to pursue
Speaker:this. Right. Um, and I think this is really, this feels very much like the kind of like
Speaker:beta run. for what we want to start doing as an organization now is finding people who are
Speaker:willing and ready to organize and just like ready to jump in and then assigning them CJTO
Speaker:help, assigning them CJTO leads, we're just gonna be like a touch point for like, oh, can
Speaker:you get like just some research on my landlord? Can you help me understand how many buildings
Speaker:they own, where those buildings are, who the key people are? Can you maybe help me get into
Speaker:touch with some of the folks in those buildings, all of that kind of stuff. is kind of like
Speaker:what CJTO is able to provide. And that's kind of a very long winded answer to your question
Speaker:of what a building lead is, right? I think we give people a lot of autonomy to just be like,
Speaker:hey, here's the phone number of a tenant in this building. There's the building. The three
Speaker:of you go talk to the person and go figure out what it takes to get a tenant association spun
Speaker:up and get them like militant and get them fighting the landlord. Hello, you're just so very blunt.
Speaker:Let's see how we can get started and then how we can get the militant. OK, like I know it's
Speaker:not like doesn't happen like that. Not everyone's like, let's try. I mean, that's where we're
Speaker:headed. And but, you know, Bruno talked about that in blueprints of a rent strike. And we
Speaker:will link that though. They do get there. Yeah. Goes back to sometimes just creating third
Speaker:spaces, getting to know your neighbors a little more recruiting one by one. I guess eventually
Speaker:violate your goal would be to, you know, in. Ideally get someone from the building to start
Speaker:taking over the roles that CJTO is filling in so that they can then go replicate on another
Speaker:building and rinse and repeat over and over again. But you also act as a bit of a staffing
Speaker:agency for a lot of the great organizations in the city, right? Like York Southwestern,
Speaker:but that isn't the only organization you folks act in solidarity with, is it? Or is it? I
Speaker:think today it might be other than individual tenant associations that we work with. And
Speaker:I think the staffing agency model is a very good description of what we want to do for
Speaker:the associations. But yeah. Okay. I didn't know if I was being rude. I think that's fantastic
Speaker:because I don't think I've talked to a group that plays that role, but it's entirely fitting
Speaker:with... one of the themes that we talk about a lot of not repeating unnecessary work, right?
Speaker:Like not trying to recreate a model as though it doesn't already exist, right? So to both
Speaker:bolster those efforts that you admire and not worry about like trying to make it your own
Speaker:immediately, right? Like that it's this kind of learning curve, right? Eventually, like
Speaker:you kind of drift into your Southwest Intent Union. learn and morph into something different,
Speaker:but eventually you won't drift away, but it'll be a much bigger branching off. Right? Totally.
Speaker:And you've spoke to a big vacuum that exists that has my brain percolating now of the absence
Speaker:of a national network or clear provincial network. I know... A lot of you folks are talking to
Speaker:each other, you know each other, and hopefully you like call each other and ask questions
Speaker:and once in a while. But even I was talking to, I think Santiago and going, you know, they
Speaker:need like a place, a space where they can come together and kind of bounce all of these ideas
Speaker:off of one another and their failures and victories. And they don't. I don't know. I wouldn't try
Speaker:that. This is what happens when we do that. And, you know. I hope that exists on some level,
Speaker:but I think maybe if everybody assumes that it'll just exist nobody will create it, but
Speaker:you know, we all have our hands full. But you know, it is a bit of a, I think a need just
Speaker:hearing how much you folks have learned from working with other people and the capacity
Speaker:that you'll be able to have moving forward for building, you know, what I think I'm just referring
Speaker:to as the tenant class. I think yeah, it's. And it also spoke to the opponent not being
Speaker:as well prepared, although you follow this labor model and it might take longer. It does take
Speaker:longer. There is that benefit that it's not an untried avenue, but it's almost like that
Speaker:sneaking in the side door. You know, we've tried to mobilize the working class. with a labor
Speaker:focus, but as we know, like not everybody is in a workplace or in a workplace that can easily
Speaker:be unionized, like the more precarious employment is and shift work and all that, it becomes
Speaker:even more difficult. But everyone lives somewhere and more and more and more of us are becoming
Speaker:part of the tenant class in fact, right? So finding a way to use our power to push against
Speaker:theirs, perhaps at a point that hasn't really felt enough pressure, right? talk about how
Speaker:our municipalities are structured and the influence of developers and real estate investors have
Speaker:on our politicians and our homes, it's, they've clearly gone unchecked for too long. The landlord
Speaker:class. And I'll say, this is kind of where the education piece comes back in, right? Like
Speaker:where, so we're currently running three campaigns and... every building is totally different.
Speaker:And so we're able to sit down and compare notes and compare tactics and be like, well, what
Speaker:do you, what did you try that didn't work? How can we engage people? How can we mobilize people?
Speaker:Why are, like, why are you having these issues mobilizing people and they over there are not?
Speaker:And how can we understand how these two buildings are different or how the tactics have differed?
Speaker:And I think... over time, we're just gonna collect like a real playbook of how to do this, right?
Speaker:And I think where we're gonna be happiest is we can't be going into every building in town
Speaker:that's out of the question. We need people to sort of come to us and want to learn our tactics,
Speaker:our expertise, right? And so that we can just provide them with a playbook and begin to provide
Speaker:them with a bit of a network through that same kind of like educational. program that we can
Speaker:put together for them and just really spread the word, right? Is really what it is. It's
Speaker:kind of crazy, but I think there's probably people everywhere in Toronto that are sitting
Speaker:around thinking, God, I hate my landlord. I wish I could fucking do something about this.
Speaker:And we just need to get them the information for how you can, in fact, do something about
Speaker:this. Right. I think. Yeah, there's not too much of a distinction in my mind between our
Speaker:organizing work on the ground, knocking on doors, and then telling people about knocking on doors.
Speaker:Right? I think they're both a way to build up that power. I think it's also worth noting
Speaker:that it's, again, something that a lot of organizers have been doing recently. I think I take a
Speaker:lot of inspiration from the Starbucks unionization campaign in the states over these last few
Speaker:years. It's a different game. They had like salts, they had big unions backing them in
Speaker:the background. But when they had those early victories, they really... I was reading some
Speaker:interviews with those organizers and they made a very clear tactical decision that we do not
Speaker:have enough paid staffers to support a national campaign. We're going to just take the workers
Speaker:who just unionized and pair them up with someone in a different workplace and just let it go.
Speaker:You know, like that's what they did. Like reading buddies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like organizer buddies.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. And you know, it really propelled that forward. And of course, like no two cases
Speaker:are the same. You always have to be creative and strategic. But you know, I think that kind
Speaker:of considering the scale of housing right now, like, and you know, we're not gonna, one building
Speaker:at our time, our way to fixing this or getting power. So, you know, I think the move is really
Speaker:gonna be as we start to develop that confidence, as we start to build up more organizers, how
Speaker:can we really propel like tenants to take the lead as well in organizing both their own buildings
Speaker:and really inspiring and helping out with other building campaigns going forward? You don't
Speaker:give off the, I need to build up my confidence vibe, at least not the two of you in here.
Speaker:I mean, I really get this feeling and this excitement that you both have to where you're gonna be.
Speaker:where CJTO is going to be and what its impact is going to be. You folks looking to recruit
Speaker:more people on October 19th? That is. Maybe, because this is also very contagious. I am
Speaker:going to leave the studio in a really good mood. Like, I can't. I don't know, maybe it's just
Speaker:because it's Friday. I mean, maybe you can come to orientation. You know what? I have the date
Speaker:marked down. I don't live in the city, but I do make the occasional trip. And I am stoked
Speaker:about tenant organizing right now, just in general. So although a bit of me was like, oh, it's,
Speaker:you know, another tenant organizing. I'm going to get another tenant organization because,
Speaker:you know, you know, my show, I try to talk to like all kinds of like a broad issue, but I
Speaker:am really obsessed with it right now just because of. all the things I've already said, so I
Speaker:won't repeat that. But then when you spoke of this transition too, I was just like, this
Speaker:is really meaningful. I think this, and it's so mature, I think of an organization that
Speaker:has put a lot of their identity, I mean, your name at least, into climate justice. But then
Speaker:to reevaluate where the gains were being made and how you could change tack to get where
Speaker:you needed to go ultimately. Anyway, yeah, I just wanted to add that in. Tell us more about
Speaker:the orientation so everyone else that's in the area will join you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
Speaker:so we'll be having our orientation on October 19th. It'll be at noon. It'll be downtown in
Speaker:Toronto at the CSI Spadina. I'm sure there'll be a link somewhere afterward, which I can
Speaker:send Jessa. You know, I think it's a really easy way to get involved. Like we really try,
Speaker:we really revamped it to be a kind of like more social community event and really kind of get
Speaker:people in the door, get people excited, get people like out to their first canvas. And
Speaker:you know, I think like both Violet and I have said, there's so much work to do and like,
Speaker:and this is true of all organizing, but like more people's always better. If... if people
Speaker:want to get involved, there is things to do. I promise you there is stuff to do. You will
Speaker:not be bored. I think the other side of that is, we are a membership democratic organization.
Speaker:Housing is our only campaign right now, but I think there's a future where we also have
Speaker:more campaigns as well. We did briefly try out some stuff with labor and transit, and for
Speaker:different reasons, it didn't work out. In the past, we have... we were involved in the municipal
Speaker:election in 2022. So, you know, while I think housing is our main campaign right now, I think
Speaker:there's also a lot of opportunity for people who might join through housing, but might see
Speaker:another organizing opportunity to also develop like a future part of CJTO. I think what's
Speaker:really lacking in my opinion in Toronto, but also Canada is some kind of left-wing organization
Speaker:that can really bring together a lot of campaigns. and a lot of things under a common banner.
Speaker:So, you know, as much as we can try to build that, I hope that people are down to do that,
Speaker:both through us and other orgs. Oh, that is, I feel like that is like the, that pinned item,
Speaker:right? Like we all have these things. Yeah, I'm like, don't mention the NDP, don't mention
Speaker:the NDP. No, no, I don't have time for that. You don't want me going there, but you know,
Speaker:that just. Just when we think we have maybe something fitting that role, we're like, no,
Speaker:no. So yeah, I don't think many people are going to disagree with you on that point. I guess
Speaker:that is another episode. Yeah. I mean, I'd love to talk about why we need something like the
Speaker:DSA in Canada or something like that. But that's another episode for sure. It is, but I do have
Speaker:your email address. So I do have that discussion. You can just come right back on and we'll have
Speaker:it. So I'm not dismissing it. Yeah. Anytime. Awesome. Nice. Yeah. Next next week's episode.
Speaker:You already got it, guys. You also have general meetings. So if you're in the show notes, please
Speaker:always check the show notes. Links to these people's social media will be there, but also
Speaker:the RSVP to the event that they're talking about. I'll even. We'll even link that Seth Klein
Speaker:article for reference, but just keep in mind, Aniket's commentary on it, because it doesn't
Speaker:quite fit the path that we're talking about here in terms of building working class power,
Speaker:attending class power, but I really do wanna thank you folks for doing the work that you're
Speaker:doing on the ground. Like I said, I'm very excited about it. Santiago, I know, will be very excited
Speaker:to listen back to this episode. I'm here. what you folks are doing. And I'll be even more
Speaker:tuned to your IG, but you might see their October 19th as well. And yeah, just thanks for coming
Speaker:on and sharing the journey of the organization. I think there's lots of folks that it'll resonate
Speaker:with as organizers, right? Even if they don't take the same path you folks did, but just
Speaker:being able to reevaluate and... make sure what we're doing is valuable for the bigger picture,
Speaker:right, rather than short-term gains or whatnot, that it is kind of ideologically driven to,
Speaker:as an anti-capitalist movement as well. But yeah, thank you, Valulet and Aniket. Definitely.
Speaker:Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having us. It was a great opportunity. Oh, yeah. No,
Speaker:the pleasure is mine. Thank you. That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption.
Speaker:Thank you for joining us. Also, a very big thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Jaluc
Speaker:Quintero. Blueprints of Disruption is an independent production operated cooperatively. You can
Speaker:follow us on Twitter at BPEofDisruption. If you'd like to help us continue disrupting the
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Speaker:Not only does our support come from the progressive community, so does our content. So reach out
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