Basis of Unity: Vancouver Tenants Union
"The Tenant Class is Here" and they are a force to be reckoned with.
Vancouver Tenants Union organizers Asura Enkhbayar and Ben Ger provide insight into their work building power from below, some of it in neighbourhoods with the highest concentration of renters on the continent. The variety of campaigns they’ve got going on doesn’t just speak to the complexity of issues facing tenants, but also to the value of a decentralized organization that’s able to respond locally, as needed.
They also share the journey their organization has gone on over the past decade, and how tough lessons led them to a Basis of Unity and a new way forward.
Hosted and Produced by: Jessa McLean
Call to Action: Donate to the Park Beach Tenants Legal Fund
Related Episodes:
- Shifting Gears is a discussion w/Climate Justice Toronto on their own transition from an environmentalist grassroots org to one focused on supporting tenant organizing in the City.
- Voices for Unhoused Liberation is an interview with unhoused organizers and activists in Toronto.
- Tenant Power: a playlist of episodes that would have landlords shaking in their boots.
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Transcript
Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean,
and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints
::of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated
to amplifying the work of activists, examining
::power structures, and sharing the success stories
from the grassroots. Through these discussions,
::we hope to provide folks with the tools and
the inspiration they need to start to dismantle
::capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring
about the political revolution that we know
::we need. The tenant class is It's here and
it's not just this small number of like, you
7
::know, the average of 30 % or kind of like 50
% maybe. Depending on where you are, it is
8
::the vast majority of people. The tenant class
certainly is here and we are about to hear
9
::from two people organizing towards some incredible
goals to that very end. The Vancouver Tenants
10
::Union is in our studio. They're going to provide
some insight into the work that they do building
11
::power from below. in neighborhoods where they've
got some of the highest concentration of renters
12
::on the continent. The variety of campaigns
they've got going on doesn't just speak to
13
::the complexity of issues facing tenants, but
also to the value of a decentralized organization
14
::that's able to respond locally as needed. Now,
they've been at this for over a decade, but
15
::their approach has shifted over those years.
Some very hard lessons had to be learned, a
16
::lot of reflection, and in the end, they came
out the other side with a basis of unity to
17
::be proud of and really a new way forward. In
the same way they hope newer members can lean
18
::on what the VTU have already been through, I
hope their story can serve as a cautionary
19
::tale for organizers listening in, particularly
when it comes to what they have to say. about
20
::engaging with electoral politics. Before we
jump right into the discussion, I want to remind
21
::folks that we do rely almost entirely on word
of mouth to grow our audience. Sharing the
22
::episode on your social media feeds is one easy
way to help us out. You can also leave a review
23
::on whatever platform you're using to listen
right now. Lord knows the algorithm owned by
24
::billionaires. is not going to boost our show.
So we need you for that. On that note, let's
25
::hear more about that tenant class from Ben and
Asura. Welcome gentlemen. Can you introduce
26
::yourself to the audience, please? Ben, do you
want to start? Hi, my name is Ben. I'm an
27
::organizer and member of the Vancouver Tenants
Union. And I'm here with, my name is Asura.
28
::I'm also an organizer here in Vancouver. I
live in the West End and I've been with the
29
::union for... two, three years. The union itself
is about five years old. I was scoping out
30
::the website. if it's almost a decade, you guys
got to update your website or maybe it was
31
::in your basis of unity and you're talking about
the history, which we'll get into later. But
32
::we've talked to quite a few tenant unions on
blueprints of disruption, but never quite one
33
::with so many chapters. Would you consider yourself
a coalition of tenant unions? You know, the
34
::union certainly has a priority of of promoting
autonomy within the Union. But we make a clear
35
::distinction of this autonomy within the Union
as opposed to autonomy from the Union. We
36
::try to be quite closely tied together and that's
sort of a challenge that we're constantly facing,
37
::but we do have principles that we all abide
by, a sort of common set of values, and we
38
::all learn from each other and try to get together
as much as humanly possible. something closer
39
::or more akin to a network than a coalition,
I would say, it's still one organization. And
40
::I think as you just mentioned, I think it's
really important that you also just mentioned
41
::the basis of unity. I think there are critical
pieces that try to maintain kind of like coordinate
42
::and like create at least some form of a unified
front while we're also exploring autonomy and
43
::kind of like letting chapters explore their
own needs, know, the particular kind of like
44
::circumstances, the neighborhoods in Vancouver
differ a lot depending kind of like organizing.
45
::will change, the needs will change depending
on what kind of part of the city you're in.
46
::And I imagine, you know, folks want to choose
different tactics, perhaps based on the type
47
::of landlord that they're facing. Before we started
recording, you mentioned one of the challenges,
48
::we'll use the word challenges, that you face
is adapting to different kinds of landlords.
49
::Can you talk about that a little bit, how campaigns
might differ or where there's, you know, give
50
::an example of a particular type of landlord
that is a struggle to go up against perhaps.
51
::In terms of categorizing the types of fights
the union gets into, I would say at a baseline,
52
::what the union is most focused on is organizing
what we call tenant collectives, other places
53
::called tenant associations or tenant unions
of their own. The name that's happened to
54
::come up here is collectives, just buildings,
you know, people who are fighting against their
55
::landlord with multiple units all sort of tying
together. But it's not the only type of fight
56
::we do. Uh, we, also do, uh, some, we call
neighborhood fights. These are, you know, in
57
::Vancouver, are neighborhoods like the West End,
like I sort of said, or, or maybe just calling
58
::with the have a lot more of these apartment
buildings. Uh, but there's also tons of neighborhoods
59
::in the city, in the same city that are mostly
single family, like residential neighborhoods
60
::where the type of fight that we're taking on
is between a basement suite renter and their
61
::landlord. And trying to figure out how to collectivize
that into a neighborhood fight is, a totally
62
::different ballpark. Especially because sometimes
the landlords aren't these massive corporate
63
::landlords. Sometimes they're these quote unquote
good mom and pop landlords who in reality are
64
::oftentimes sometimes the worst, the most abusive.
And maybe they own a couple other units, maybe
65
::they're on the same street, maybe they're not,
but you're having to sort of navigate a different
66
::terrain. And the last type of fight we do is
what we call site fights, which we've primarily
67
::done in coalition with other organizations so
far, but this is like a One big one in the
68
::city is called 105 Keifer. It's the type of
fight where the lot is empty and a developer
69
::is trying to come in and turn that into, let's
say luxury condominiums. 105 Keifer was a
70
::site fight in Chinatown that's been going on
for, my God, itself almost a decade or something
71
::like this that keeps coming up over and over.
But Chinatown and the downtown East side are
72
::both part of what at times has been referred
to as the poorest postal code in Canada or
73
::North America. I don't think it is right now,
but it's a neighbourhood pretty deeply entrenched
74
::with poverty and they've been trying to build
really expensive luxury condominiums there
75
::for quite some time. We've seen a couple of
those types of fights in Toronto. Vancouver
76
::has a lot of renters. According to the data
you folks were sharing, 50 % I think the nationwide
77
::average or in Ontario in general, it's 30%.
But you know, looking at Vancouver, 50 % is
78
::a lot and like 60 % of the housing in Vancouver
are... rentals. I don't know how that math
79
::works out, but it does. Those are incredible
numbers. I got a smile when I was reading one
80
::your folks were quoted in a CBC article that
you would love to have a rep in every building.
81
::And I thought that gave me a big smile. That
is the idea, right? Could you imagine being
82
::able to mobilize 50 % of the residents of Vancouver
when needed? That's a dream, isn't it? You
83
::folks have quite a few members already. Like
we're looking at over 2,000, you said? I think
84
::we're over 3,000 now. You guys got to update
your website for sure. You got way more to
85
::brag about. Like my notes are all out of date,
but tell me more about what it looks like right
86
::now and how fast it's growing in Vancouver.
This idea of organizing as tenants, because
87
::I think some people maybe a few years ago saw
this as unimaginable to kind of gain these
88
::kinds of numbers or especially to think of a
rep in every building and point person in every
89
::neighborhood. So where are at now with the Vancouver
tenant union? would also just quickly like
90
::to add to the 50 % number. It's really interesting
to these numbers are important because they
91
::obviously describe the averages, but Vancouver
also has the West End. we are currently in
92
::the West End. matter of I live in the West End
and the West End has 80 % rent areas. And the
93
::West End is the densest neighborhood in Vancouver.
I actually do believe that it's the densest
94
::renters neighborhood in North America because
we just have these, a lot of six story, seven
95
::story, older apartments, but also in the 67
days they built a lot of kind of like towers,
96
::like rental apartment, purposeful like rental
towers. And I think it's important to acknowledge
97
::that the tenant class is... It's here and it's
not just the small number of like, you know,
98
::the average of 30 % or kind of like 50 % maybe.
Like depending on where you are, it is the
99
::vast majority of people. I think it would be
the dream to have a lead or kind of like an
100
::organized building and like an organization
of kind of like a tenant collective in every
101
::building. And I think we're really hopeful.
This last year especially has been... very
102
::exciting for the union. There's a lot of growth.
As Ben said, we're now over 3,000 members.
103
::But also there's really an exciting part about
that growth is that it's not only growth in
104
::terms of of like members joining the larger
union, but also chapters, which is beautiful
105
::to see that new neighborhoods end up kind of
like trying to come together, having their
106
::first chapter meetings, finding a building.
Often these kind of like new developments might
107
::be rooted in a concrete building and they're
gonna specific fight against kind of like a
108
::landlord, an issue, foreign issue. But I think
we are also having cases where, I don't know,
109
::like members move across the city into a new
neighborhood or meet friends, neighbors, and
110
::just decide to start slowly building a chapter
and kind of like joining this fight. I don't
111
::know, is it a dream to have at some point somebody
in every building? Sure, I mean, I think it's
112
::a dream to have as many people who are actively
involved in the union as possible. think one,
113
::because then we can, you know, like you said,
mobilize people for these big type of fights.
114
::The union has been doing a lot of thinking as
well about our conception of moving from here
115
::to liberation, whatever that looks like for
everyone. But for us, it's really laid out
116
::in our basis of unity. This idea of tenant control,
community control over buildings, this idea
117
::of a world without rent, a world without landlords.
And to get there, we have to imagine what
118
::that world would look like at least a little
bit, how decisions would be made, both on
119
::an individual building level, which requires
some level of tenant organization everywhere,
120
::but also on a neighborhood level, where tenants
from various buildings can come together and
121
::discuss how they want their neighborhood to
look and change and build. That's rooted really
122
::in... in working class and poor people's experiences
and struggles and keeping people in their
123
::neighborhood and in their communities if they
want to. And so to do that, I think, you know,
124
::this is where this sort of idea of having reps
in every building, of building these neighborhood
125
::chapters come in. It's sort of a prefigurative
idea of what decision-making could look like
126
::if it wasn't so based in, you know, the colonial
government. You know, if City Hall here...
127
::wasn't the one who were calling all the shots,
but the people in their own neighborhoods collectively
128
::through direct democracy were able to do this
sort of work. And so that's what the union
129
::is really working towards in a long-term goal.
And we take that day by day and step by step.
130
::So yeah, I can't see a problem with the idea
of having more people and more buildings that
131
::are actively engaged in their local chapters.
Oh no, like even when you run a political campaign
132
::and the idea is to at least get a point person,
you know, doesn't necessarily be an institution
133
::behind it, but just someone, a contact that'll
let you know when something's going on, when
134
::there's enough disgruntled people to kind of
get in there. And that is not unattainable
135
::at all. No, no, you folks can definitely do
that. And Toronto organizing is on fire right
136
::now. In Montreal, there was just a conference,
a housing justice conference. folks, it's
137
::growing just as a tactic, right? We've broken
away from labor being the only way that we
138
::can organize ourselves. Quite rapidly, it feels
like, or at least like I am discovering how
139
::the growth of it in the last year and a half.
obviously, know, folks have been around for
140
::10 years, you've already laid a lot of groundwork.
I feel like Ben, when you were just talking
141
::there, you're kind of leading me into one of
the campaigns, moving is not an option. You
142
::talk about staying in the neighborhood if you
want to or need to, right? Like if moving
143
::isn't an option, but you also talked about the
bureaucracy and the institutions that we're
144
::up against. And quite often, you know, there
are legal avenues. We have the Landlord Tenant
145
::Board. You folks have the RTB, right? Similar
thing, it's loaded against us, very difficult
146
::to get victories, not impossible, but very hard
and expensive. So tenant unions, right?
147
::And like, you know, not allowing, if you agree
that are a way to bypass these institutions
148
::where we don't need to rely on legal victories.
Because I feel like, you know, maybe you could
149
::take us through Abby's story, but part of it,
I'll spoiler. is that yeah, that there was
150
::a loss at the RTB, but that certainly hasn't
stopped the campaign or you folks insisting
151
::that Abby be allowed to stay, right? So it wasn't
the be all end all. Do you wanna talk about
152
::that campaign and what it represents for your
group? This is one of those neighborhood style
153
::campaigns that we were talking about. So Abby
lives in a basement suite in a home. She's
154
::been there for 17 years. Her landlord lives
directly above her. Abby, you know, self describes
155
::as a senior with disabilities and she's on a
fixed income and her landlord over the last
156
::year has slowly been, you know, sort of pushing
her about the idea of moving out and then lo
157
::and behold, delivered this rent increase to
her, legal rent increase to her of over 40%.
158
::I think it was 42 % or something like this.
And when Abby refused, And to clarify, this
159
::is before Abby was involved with the union.
Her refusal wasn't even a full blown, you know,
160
::I'm not paying this. I'll pay the maximum allowed,
which is like 3 % or something like this. She
161
::refused and agreed still to a 20 % rent increase
with the landlord, which she regrets, but she
162
::felt really pressured. She didn't know what
to do. She thought she would lose her home.
163
::And this is a common experience amongst a lot
of tenants, but this didn't satisfy the landlord.
164
::you know, this landlord was furious with her.
She remained upset with her. From that moment
165
::on, the relationship was completely fractured.
And lo and behold, a couple of months later,
166
::received an eviction notice for landlord use,
which in BC is quickly rising. And I think
167
::at this point, it's certainly the most rising
cause of tenant evictions after there's been
168
::some regulations of renovation evictions or
rent evictions, as we call them. You know,
169
::Abby receives this clearly bogus eviction order.
When they get to the RTB, which is like our
170
::quasi court for tenants, the landlord story
changes. It's now about how she has a foot
171
::injury and she needs to live on the basement
floor, the ground floor. Meanwhile, the same
172
::landlord goes dancing for multiple hours twice
a week and is also quite active, know, walking,
173
::walks her dog every single day, even though
there's other people in the house that could
174
::do this for her. So she lives an active lifestyle,
you know. Whatever, maybe there is an injury,
175
::who knows, but it's clearly not enough to justify
evicting someone who's been living in their
176
::neighborhood, deeply tied to her neighborhood
for almost two decades. And who would essentially
177
::be forced maybe out of their neighborhood or
even face homelessness, right, with that fixed
178
::income and the way that rents have risen. Totally.
the board, right? Like that's the reality.
179
::It's not just you have to find a new place
to live. Sometimes it means there is almost
180
::no option left for. for folks like Abby? 100%.
I mean, Abby says it quite often that she says
181
::that moving would quite literally kill her.
And it's real, know? Like, Abby suffers from
182
::a lot of different disabilities that cause chronic
pain, very serious chronic pain for her. And
183
::yeah, you know, there's community that can help
her to a degree, but even just packing up her
184
::stuff, which is a deeply personal experience.
This has been really damaging to her and being
185
::able to not only physically move, but find new
services. She has a lot of local services that
186
::she relies on, her RMT. That's her community.
We have every right to stay in our communities.
187
::When I first saw that campaign, I didn't actually
realize it was for an individual. It really
188
::isn't just for Abby that that campaign is for.
But just that phrasing, housing, that moving
189
::is not an option, I think would resonate with
so many people, describes the situation and
190
::that power struggle and the not understanding
what your rights are. Like some people would
191
::have just walked away when the landlord said,
you got to be out of here, you should be out
192
::of here because they can't deal with that toxic
situation that sometimes arises out of that
193
::or the abuse. of landlords after that, because
that's really what it is, right? They almost
194
::torment you into leaving. And people anticipate
that. And so they're just like, oh, you know,
195
::I'll just get out of here. It's not a fight.
But knowing there's a union around, maybe,
196
::you you're not a part of, but you know it's
a thing. You know you've seen people fighting
197
::back against landlords because that's the biggest
mental barrier I think some people have. These
198
::are, you know, if you're to be evicted, you're
to be evicted. You know, like that's it. It's
199
::a done deal. Even if you know about the RTB,
you know, some people might not, but you don't,
200
::and you know how bad it is. But, you know,
it's just a game changer, I think, having
201
::tenant unions, especially one as strong as
yours. But we've seen folks really get fired
202
::up simply from galvanizing around a landlord
trying to enter a unit without proper notice.
203
::You know, it seems like a small thing. It's
a thing. Tenants have to deal with all the
204
::time and we just usually complain to each other
a little bit like that fucker, you know, I
205
::didn't even know they were coming in and my
cat is loose and you know, like all kinds of
206
::things just inconveniences, but it stems from
that power imbalance. And so instead of just
207
::approaching the unit bickering with the landlord,
there's like six or seven people standing there
208
::reminding them, we know our rights, we will
defend each other. And like that kind of. sits
209
::with landlords as much as it sits with tenants,
which is nice to see them squirm like that.
210
::Do you have any other campaigns that you think
really personify the work that you do or you
211
::want to highlight for folks? As mentioned earlier,
talk about the West End. 80 percent. Yeah.
212
::In the future, be a site of a lot of fights,
especially very particular type of fight.
213
::We are slowly building towards more and more
cases where multiple buildings, multiple tenant
214
::collectives come together to fight. single landlord,
their common landlord. And especially in the
215
::West End, think we have, you might've also
seen it on the website. It has been one of
216
::the major campaigns now for almost a year.
The Park Beach tenants, Park Beach tenants
217
::collective fighting their quite awful landlord,
Plan A, real estate services. Plan A basically.
218
::Plan A is, might be one of the worst landlords
ever that we're dealing with. Plan A itself
219
::is... Not a corporate landlord, exactly. It's
not kind of like the, not a REIT, it's not
220
::kind of like one of those big organizations
that just kind of like, often our experience,
221
::we see that these, biggest corporate landlords
kind of try to play by the books. We were just
222
::truly shocked by Plan A's very shocking tactics
that genuinely have been, I think, taking
223
::not only the tenants but... think some of the
organizers by surprise about how outrightly
224
::evil and harmful and direct these of like threatening
tactics, the harassment, all the different
225
::ways of trying to basically suppress any kind
of like, not only collective efforts once we've
226
::started to fight back, but also at an individual
level of kind of like genuinely not attempting
227
::to hide intentions here, praying for the most
vulnerable. To describe the tactic briefly,
228
::it's plan A will buy up. very particular type
of apartment building. Typically two to three
229
::floors, maybe four. Often they will basically
try to very quickly get through the long standing
230
::tenants, get rid of them. And then obviously
kind of like try to slowly also turn those
231
::units into, to kind of renovate them, break
them up into smaller units, increase the number
232
::of beds, increase the number of rooms. They
definitely run a lot of illegal Airbnb's.
233
::Like in one case there that we found a building
where We met someone who was staying at one
234
::of the units for a month and they were being
charged $10,000 for the single month's as an
235
::Airbnb stay, which is illegal for the short-term
rentals, but the city doesn't care. There's
236
::no real enforcement by any government. On top
of that, I mean, like, makes it very clear
237
::why he would want to evict people. You move
from making maybe $1,100, $1,200 on these long-term
238
::tenants to $10,000 overnight. a month. Or in
other cases, he would then continue to lease
239
::places out to a lot of times new arrivals
in the city. that be international students,
240
::maybe workers, but again, preying on people
who might not be familiar with their rights,
241
::who might not have established communities,
who might not have friends or even family
242
::to just support them. It's truly shocking at
how also efficient and how well it works because
243
::the city does not care about it. The city has
known about Plan A's behavior for 10 years.
244
::We've had MLAs supporting previous prior
buildings at rallies and kind of like stepping
245
::up and declaring their support. But what we
effectively see is that Plan A has been allowed
246
::to continue what they've been doing for the
last 10 years while basically the city politicians
247
::are watching on. I hear you talking about some
support you got from MLAs. but I can't help
248
::but I'm gonna go back to your basis of unity.
We've kind of, we dabble in it. We're gonna
249
::dabble in it because it's got, know, trying
to get an idea of your ideology going through
250
::your website. And again, another big smile when
you reject a lot of things. A lot of things
251
::are worded like that. Even on the front page,
you know, we reject. speculative market or
252
::housing that should be a commodity. I mean,
you've said all that, but it also says very
253
::explicitly, we reject electoral politics. As
do I. I mean, I try to humor it every now and
254
::again because there are comrades that want to
take that route and let them be. However, I
255
::will not spend my energy there. And I think
that's exactly how you folks, oh no, I have
256
::the whole quote. We reject electoral politics.
Our power is wasted when we direct it towards
257
::reformist compromises with capital and real
estate power, which is basically your city
258
::council, right? Power is never conceded from
above, only seized from below. I love your
259
::basis of unity. I can understand, however, how
it's hard to onboard people with these. Some
260
::of them seem unachievable and, you know, really
far left. I mean, where we're at, which is
261
::fine, that... The language isn't always the
best, but from people just entering because
262
::they hate their landlord, not because they want
a revolution. They're like, whoa, I don't
263
::know if I'm there yet. We'll get there. But
I love how you folks have basically structured
264
::yourself around taking the steps to get there.
You're not going for free housing at the moment,
265
::even though that is your number one point under
basis of unity. Housing should be free. Do
266
::want to talk about the steps that you are taking
to get people there or to get us collectively
267
::there to the idea that housing shouldn't be
a commodity? support that Sor is referring
268
::to from provincial MLAs is from previous fights
that the VT was not involved in with this landlord.
269
::So highlighting how Plan A has been a menace
in the city for a very long time and that before
270
::the union even existed, you know these these
provincial legislators were coming to tenants
271
::who had organically organized autonomously to
fight their landlords and offered support but
272
::with you know no real change they weren't able
to save those tenants those tenants themselves
273
::ended up all being evicted that that whole building
is now also expensive airbnbs that both the
274
::province and the city are totally aware of and
extremely ugly and extremely ugly they look
275
::they look like shit Um, which yeah, who would
have guessed when you put the design of a city
276
::in the hands of some loser billionaire guys
that they would make it look like shit. The
277
::building equivalent of the cyber truck. Yeah,
exactly. It's actually a good comparison. Yeah,
278
::Nazi building. So the, the union's attitude
towards politicians and their ideas of change
279
::or bringing people along with this sort of stuff.
It's a big question. Yeah. I mean, the union
280
::went through a very long period of exploring
these ideas ourselves that got us to this point,
281
::you know, when When the union was first starting
off, spent a lot of time doing electoral work.
282
::There was a lot more centralized control in
the union, would say. And those who did sort
283
::of have the reins really focused the union's
efforts these ways. But we had almost nothing
284
::to show for it, know, by the end of it all.
There's an article on our website, I think
285
::it's called, What Did Four Years at City Hall
Get Us? You know, we mobilized a ton of people
286
::to come out constantly to win small legislative
reforms. And the result was one, either they
287
::were watered down by the policymakers who were
all themselves funded by developers beyond
288
::recognition, or two, they were passed. And then
the bureaucrats, this massive bureaucracy
289
::inside of the colonial state, which is all trained
themselves by developer-funded industries
290
::and institutions and schools that are all paid
for by Landlord BC or I can't remember the
291
::development. It doesn't matter. There's a development
is developers institution that also funds the
292
::schools. They like completely refused to implement
the reforms. They would say, oh, we're studying
293
::them. We're studying them. We're studying them.
And they would never come back. Like truly
294
::never. You mean things that were passed by council.
Yeah. Oh, that. How do you go back and like
295
::that is so rough to have like those victories,
right? And then we try to like take moment
296
::and celebrate our victories and then only to
just reassess a few months later to see. Maybe
297
::they weren't after all I mean you gotta find
little bits to celebrate but that's that's
298
::rough to hear that. There's that level of gatekeeping
beyond winning you know the bylaw. And the
299
::reinforcement issue you mentioned like that's
common in a lot of cities where they get renovation
300
::victories it might not look exactly like their
proposed renovation bylaws but they get one
301
::but then no room in the budget at all for increased.
enforcement when enforcement was already an
302
::issue for like small, not small landlord issues,
right? Like they're not already behind in responding
303
::to tenant complaints, but then they add new
laws, but don't add any new bylaw officers
304
::or training. It's just, it's on paper only.
Yeah, a hundred percent. mean, I would go
305
::as far as to call it legalized and institutionalized
corruption, right? Like people's ideologies
306
::from the moment that they're trained before
they even step into the office is corroded.
307
::and built around ideas of free markets and
capital over the lives of human beings, this
308
::constant prioritization of property and profits
over people. And so there's sort of an institutional
309
::refusal to implement any of this stuff because
from a baseline, they believe it's all bad.
310
::They can only do bad. And you're right, like
not having the space to celebrate hurt the
311
::union. We spent over a year, four years doing
this sort of stuff. And the result was we
312
::shrunk. We mobilized at each time hundreds
of people to come out to City Hall and total
313
::probably thousands of people to come out and
speak at City Hall motions. got things passed,
314
::but I mean the reality on the ground is things
are still bad. You know, they're worse than
315
::they've ever been. We maybe have like a municipally
mandated buyout system, which just helps facilitate
316
::displacement rather than stop it. But you know,
I think we all had to take a second and really
317
::reevaluate what we were doing. And that sort
of led to the creation of the basis of unity,
318
::which is largely based on our experience. Like
reading that document, it's mostly a history
319
::of the union's struggles. And so our approach
now to electoral politics is, I mean, I think
320
::still evolving and complicated. We try to promote
a diversity of tactics within the union, but
321
::we have hard lines. I think one of them is
that we don't do lobbying work. and we don't
322
::do policy advocacy, but within the scope of
a actual campaign that is focused on direct
323
::action, if the tenants want to do this rather
than the union at large voting to do this,
324
::we treat this as an opportunity for people
to learn. Tenants have the autonomy and the
325
::ability to self-govern the types of actions
that they learn. We will inform them about
326
::our experience and what we believe is likely
to happen. But if tenants want to do it, we're
327
::not going to totally stop them. As long as they're
not, you know, signing the union's name onto
328
::some sort of support for a candidate or something
like this, which is also a big no-no. We don't
329
::support parties and we don't support candidates.
This is all in the process of people learning.
330
::I think what we've realized is that it's important
not to lie to people and to set people's expectations
331
::correctly so that when they do go to the MLA's
office, like has happened in Park Beach, the
332
::campaign of SORA was referring to, and the MLA
basically tells them to be thankful for the
333
::work that they've already done and to piss off.
they feel like they know what they can do next.
334
::Well, this person doesn't care about us. We're
not going to give our power away to them. What's
335
::our next move? How do we keep confronting the
landlord? I think I would like to add to that
336
::as a newer member of the union, as a newer organizer,
this is really interesting because I think
337
::that is one of the takeaways for me has been
the importance of education and also the context
338
::here. Internally, for newer organizers, who
might not have been around for those initial
339
::years, through that painful learning curve
there. We have a way to hopefully learn without
340
::going through all the same pain. But sometimes
it is hard because as Ben said, it's a colonial
341
::state that is built on the idea of ownership
of corporations and extraction of wealth
342
::from the working class. And that means that
each one of us is also kind of like, I am
343
::entering this based with the same ideas of,
shouldn't politicians help? Shouldn't city
344
::council care about this? And it's really interesting,
I think, as an organizer, as a new member,
345
::as an active member in the union to go through
this learning experience. But it's also really
346
::helpful because it is also what happens in,
I think, each new struggle with the tenants.
347
::And this fine line of kind of like people,
like it isn't, we as a union are kind of like
348
::firmly on the back, kind of like autonomy is
important to the union. And that means even,
349
::know, tenants can make the choice to go through
painful learning experiences. That happens
350
::on so many levels, you know, it's just like
even thinking of a political revolution, like
351
::you don't want to have to get to the point where
it's so bad that people realize there's no
352
::other choice. Like, couldn't we just get where
we need to be politically without getting
353
::into the dire circumstances that people usually
have to live under in order to, feel oppression,
354
::know where it's coming from and move together
on it. Like if we could just fast forward through
355
::a few steps. But you know, when you're trying
to, I mean, not trying to, but naturally politicizing
356
::people. Yeah, there has to be sometimes baby
steps or it's like a canon event. I went in
357
::and out of the NDP, you know, in the same way
as you folks learned your lesson. I probably
358
::took the same amount of time learning my lesson.
And I feel like I can warn people away as best
359
::I can or explain exactly how it works. So if
you want to go in, you're at least a little
360
::bit more well equipped to do it. And I won't
say I told you so. I will still be here to
361
::hug you when you come out and we will move
forward at that point together. yeah, some
362
::people just need to take those steps. They have
to experience those canon events to be radicalized
363
::to use their language, right? And yeah, so that's
when support systems are important or having
364
::a veteran there going, okay, you know, I will
also answer a few of your questions to help
365
::you, but you know, with this warning that please
don't waste too much energy there, you know,
366
::and brace yourself. A hundred percent. We've
had this sort of experience of trying to get
367
::The sort of, I guess, struggle of trying to
figure out how people learn is core to, I think,
368
::the experience of the union. And we've been,
you know, I think going through multiple rounds
369
::of trying to figure this out. for me, I think
what I've learned most is that, you know, for
370
::better or for worse, greatest teacher is struggle.
People learn in campaigns, whether it's their
371
::own building that's going through a fight or
it's, you know, a new organizer from another
372
::building who is, you know, learning. by supporting
these tenants who are going through their own
373
::building site. The system just lays itself bare,
you know? The contradictions become extremely
374
::clear. An important check on the union to make
sure that we don't go this way too much of
375
::every single time new members join the union,
they're pulling us back towards trying to
376
::do electoral work or something like this, is
we are grounding the ability to do this type
377
::of... of work to maybe go have a conversation
with a politician in building struggles. It
378
::has to be out of an organizing campaign. It
can't just be like a group of members who are
379
::completely detached from the struggle and the
work on the ground, the actual organizing,
380
::who just go out and say, we're going to now
spend all of our time mobilizing as many people
381
::across the city to write letters asking for
a minor tweak to a policy. I think helps
382
::keep the union focused on direct action and
on a revolutionary trajectory. But we still
383
::have a lot of work to do on this. Like it's
not working perfectly. You know, there is struggle
384
::within the union. And I think one thing that
we learned this year, every year we do like
385
::a visioning where everyone from across the union
comes together to what we call name the moment,
386
::something like a tradition we got from Los Angeles
Tenants Union, and then talk about how we want
387
::to move forward in the moment that we're in.
And something that I think was named was that
388
::we need to have more orientation across the
union. When people come in, there needs to
389
::be something like a tank, the Oakland tenants
union. have cohorts when they join, they do
390
::activities together. They get to know each other.
People build a sense of community and connection
391
::from the get-go. And they're also oriented a
little bit towards the union's ideology. Um,
392
::how we view the world, the kinds of work we
do, the kinds of work we don't. All that to
393
::say that it also can change. are democratic
mechanisms. The union is based in direct democracy.
394
::If people want to change the way we do stuff,
you can do that at a general members meeting.
395
::You know, there needs to be some level, some
additional level of education that's happening,
396
::I think from the get go that everyone has identified
as a need. Oh my God, that would fucking horrify
397
::me if there were a group of tenants who decided
they would not not only spend their energy
398
::on electoral politics in this moment. but in
organizing around one of your AGMs to make
399
::you also spend your energy. I think like I
would like to talk to those people if there's
400
::anybody considering those moves. Just like a
few minutes, really kindly, like just please
401
::no. So like that's my worst case imaginable,
you know? You want to go on the inside political
402
::parties and reshape them, I'm like go have at
it, but. Don't fucking go to a revolutionary
403
::type organization and try to water them down.
mean, we got, we got words then, you know,
404
::just maybe share this episode with them. Certainly.
think what we found more is it's less people
405
::in buildings that are doing that and more like
individual, more liberal minded activists who
406
::will join the union and then try to pull it
into a new direction. The buildings I think
407
::learn from their own experiences more than.
these sort of ideologues who come in with an
408
::idea of how change happens. I think this is
really important because this truly isn't
409
::just about ideology. This truly isn't just about
the revolution. It's just the real experience
410
::that we help more tenants, we focus on direct
action and do not talk to politicians. It's
411
::just pure pragmatics. That's where you get
a lot of burnout. Like you talked about shrinking
412
::and if you don't have victories, obviously
that's one thing. But people can even go stretch
413
::stretches without victories and still feel
like they're building towards something. But
414
::those campaigns are just so uninspiring. You
you're begging. It goes back to that one point
415
::in the basis of unity and, you know, we talk
about it on blueprints is that, you know, you're
416
::seizing power from below. You're not begging
for scraps. You know, you're not asking, pleading
417
::this presumption that people who are city councillors
or MLAs or MPs don't know, don't know that
418
::there's a housing crisis. They don't know that,
you know, folks are being evicted without
419
::any sort of resolution. And they know, they
know that the planet is burning. They know
420
::all these issues. It's even more, right? I think
maybe like a quick tie into a new campaign
421
::that we are currently starting. It's also very
interesting. we are now currently starting
422
::to, hopefully going to be launching a UBC chapter.
So the University, the Endowment Lands, a
423
::lot of people are not aware but UBC lives in
this quite awful, shocking space where the
424
::little protection that some of the tenants in
BC are enjoying do not exist on UBC because
425
::on Endowment Lands several years ago, the
think the University Neighborhood Association
426
::in a vote decided to not abide by the RTA and
just roll out their own framework. So housing,
427
::all the student housing, and it's not only
student housing, is basically not regulated.
428
::What? And currently a group of students, families,
staff, basically tenants on campus are getting
429
::together and starting to fight back because
UBC has been, I think the numbers are actually
430
::Two years ago, 7%, last year, 5%, and this year,
5 % again. Rent increases way above the provincial
431
::guidelines, which is insane. There's just an
entity that is basically not only providing
432
::the housing to these people on campus, but they're
often also their employers. They have control
433
::over the scholarships, which means they have
control over the immigration status. I've been
434
::basically talking about it as UBC is a feudal
lord. on the endowment lens. You don't even
435
::have politicians to give your power away to
because UBC is also essentially the government
436
::over there. They make the choices. So the
politicians, you can cower before them and
437
::still UBC is the one who decides how much your
rent increases, how much time they're going
438
::to give you on your eviction notice. They don't
abide by any of the law. so, yeah, I'm realizing
439
::it was when you said kind of like that they
know city council, these politicians, it's
440
::beyond that, right? UBC is a very clear example
of like not only are they aware of what's going
441
::on, they're the people who put it in place.
I think it's very important to kind of like
442
::be openly, we need to name the enemy. It's like
there are people in power who put the current
443
::system in place, who designed it the way it
is, or keeping it the way it is. I agree with
444
::you, it is absurd to then go there and pledge
and kind of like ask for help when actually,
445
::yeah, these people put it, designed it that
way. Like we are in this place because of that.
446
::Yeah, that's why I use the quotations when I
say housing crisis, not because I don't believe
447
::we have a problem, but it's just designed that
way. And so even, yeah, your decision to not
448
::really involve yourself in policy discussions,
like even the idea of like, okay, what could
449
::we convince or make part of the next campaign?
You know, I mean, political campaign or electoral,
450
::get it on as a campaign issue, voting issue.
And it's just like that, are just, you you
451
::spend a lot of energy there and it's like tiny
little band-aids. Or like you said earlier,
452
::like you'll have a great idea, great policy
item that might actually have some impact,
453
::but it doesn't end up that way. You know, on
the, the, when it gets spit out the other end,
454
::whatever institution it goes through it and
they're all landlords. And, know, UBC being
455
::the feudal example, that is a great comparison.
A lot of your counselors are landlords or
456
::like you mentioned earlier, completely funded
by developers. And then the city itself, like
457
::in Ontario, I'm not sure if it's the same where
you folks are, like our municipalities can't
458
::run a deficit. Like you have to balance your
budget. And the way that they're structured
459
::is they're financially dependent on developer
fees and the money that comes in from letting
460
::them develop any which way they want to. Right.
And they the threats are they'll just stop
461
::building and they do that. So there's like so
many layers. So yeah, I was kind of being generous
462
::when I was like, oh, they know, and they just
don't do the right thing. Like they are actively
463
::contributing to the situation and then sitting
with people face to face, like groups of 10
464
::and just like lying to them and making promises
they probably never intend to keep. And yeah,
465
::you don't want to watch comrades go through
that over and over again. I feel you there,
466
::man. When you say like, we can't keep, we'll
give you space to do that, but please, you
467
::know, let's, yeah, I feel that. completely,
but UBC students are so vulnerable when it
468
::comes to housing to think they don't have regulations
there. Can you help me understand that a little
469
::bit more? I know we were supposed to do that
briefly, but I'm kind of confused. Who voted
470
::to not regulate the housing, the landlords?
I think as far as I understand, it's called
471
::the UNA. It's the University Neighborhood Association.
This is another learning experience, I think,
472
::for the union. The union has been interested
in organizing campuses for a while. But there's
473
::inherent challenges because also the way Vancouver
is designed with, we have UBC, SFU, the two
474
::bigger universities at the two far ends. I think
it's basically 40 kilometers between the two
475
::campuses. And both of them are in places that
are really remote. And it's quite a challenge
476
::for a union that is so kind of like rooted
in neighborhood organizing, in place-based
477
::organizing to then try to talk to students who
might be commuters. who are living in precarious
478
::situations. they're in housing and residence,
they might actually be intending to leave after
479
::the first year. Yeah, they're not really invested
in that as like a community sometimes, right?
480
::And we are now increasingly facing the situation
that the issues are just so rampant that we
481
::need to do something about it. The tenants
are coming together to do something about this
482
::and we are slowly learning. So your question
is just inherently tied into this kind of
483
::like beast of UBC governance and its history.
which is obviously also tied into the colonial
484
::system in a very deep, deep, and kind of like
defining way. And the UNA is I think basically
485
::the land owners association. The UNA is the
neighborhood association that is made up of
486
::those people who bought. Yeah, the landlords,
right? Landlords and they basically vote. They
487
::get to vote. on the kind of public facilities
they built because these places are also just
488
::communities. Families live there, UBC staff,
they're students. There's real life and community
489
::going on, but the people making the decisions
are the landlords. And the UNA is extremely
490
::powerful and to my understanding, I think it
was 20 years ago, so not quite recently, they
491
::had a major vote and apparently had the power
to decide not to abide by provincial tenancy
492
::law. It must be part of a provincial act or
something that was granted, like some autonomy
493
::that was granted to them. But I think, you know,
we're learning about this now as we're dealing.
494
::Some fucking private members bill that nobody
really paid attention to maybe at one point,
495
::you know, and it didn't even make sense. Like,
what? And then you understand the implications
496
::of it after the gobbledygook gets filtered through
to something in real life. And you're like,
497
::shit. What? You know, like how did that get
through city council? But then again, you know,
498
::we already answered how that got through city
council, right? Or provincial legislature.
499
::Well, same thing. You're probably right. Yeah.
Yeah. Also just to kind of like throw out a
500
::number, UBC's development arm, I think it's
just the development arm, has an endowment
501
::of $2 billion. UBC is also a massive developer.
That's so ugly. The last episode we aired was
502
::just about how university administrators colluded
with the province in Alberta mostly, but also
503
::all over the place to violently evict student
encampments. So I already had a bone to pick
504
::with university administrators, but this, I
wonder how many universities have similar situations
505
::like that. Maybe not. exactly having no regulations,
but just student housing. The issues inherent
506
::with that, it's almost similar to trying to
organize precarious workers or commuting workers.
507
::Like there's such high turnover as well, right?
Like every four, you know, you don't even have
508
::the one tenant to fight with you all that long
because they do move on for the most part.
509
::But what a shit situation. Like who's going
to take the onus on to fix that? And the answer
510
::is You know, you will, you know, like a tenants
union that realizes perhaps the value in fighting
511
::for neighborhoods that they don't live in because
there's difficulties in organizing that neighborhood,
512
::right? Like if folks can lend a hand on that
UBC campaign, lend some resources and people
513
::power and expertise, you know, but yeah, I can
understand why that is a bit of a hurdle,
514
::albeit an important one to get over. does seem
like there is a real appetite amongst a lot
515
::of these people to to do something. There was
already a campaign. think part of the reason
516
::why a lot of people are coming to the Union
now to try and fight this is that ASURA was
517
::involved in a campaign where the Union was supporting,
along with some migrant justice groups. We
518
::got together to support an Indigenous mother
who UBC was trying to evict in her family.
519
::And we won. And I think a lot of people saw
that moment as a sort of crack in the shell
520
::of UBC's totality. the idea that they are able
to choose everything that happens on campus
521
::and we have no power at all because they're
so big, they're so futile in their sort of
522
::setup. But you know, with just a campaign put
together, like a letter writing campaign, essentially
523
::what we call an emails app. Was it an emails
app or a phones app? It was both. It was an
524
::emails app, a phones app, but also honestly
a massive shout out here to MSU, which is Migrant
525
::Students United. Some amazing organizers there
took over and takeaways are the same ones over
526
::and over again. What secures us the wins is
direct action. Yeah, so these MSU folks helped
527
::the tenant and marched into UBC housing's office
and demanded to talk to the president to the
528
::person in charge and Long story short that
it got us the win. So the tenant is still there
529
::So, you know this kind of stuff it works. It
really really works It's what we see over and
530
::over whether we're fighting for better conditions
inside of buildings to stop evictions to stop
531
::demolitions We get real wins when tenants stick
together and they act directly against the
532
::landlord. Victories are contagious. you know,
whatever bits of that you can pull out and
533
::celebrate and learn from, mean, absolute value
for more than just the people that were directly
534
::involved. Before we wrap up, though, I did
and I don't see it in my notes, but I do remember
535
::reading it and wanting to give you folks credit
for including a very broad definition of what
536
::a tenant is. I believe it's defined by anybody
who doesn't have control over their housing.
537
::And obviously that includes folks who have
no housing at all or very precarious housing.
538
::And I think it's important that you make that
distinction obviously and include those fights
539
::in your fights. But it's, it brings up the
kind of that same troubling question with
540
::calling ourselves the working class and then
it just by vocabulary excluding people who
541
::don't work. So it's important when we talk about
tenants to understand it more broadly than
542
::just the people who are paying rent, you know,
on a consistent basis. that it is more than
543
::that, but as long as you do treat it that way.
Because when we talk about the working class,
544
::we say, oh, it includes everybody, right? It
includes children, people who can't work, disabled
545
::folks, but sometimes we don't actually include
them in our fights and demands. And so then
546
::the working class actually starts to become
looking like actually it just means the working
547
::class. So are you able to do meaningful organizing
towards maybe campaigns that are focused on
548
::unhoused community members? This is a good question.
mean, to maybe as a first bit of homage, know,
549
::this sort of understanding of the tenant class
as being anyone who doesn't have control over
550
::their housing, I think comes both from, you
know, learnings from Indigenous elders inside
551
::of the movement, as well as our comrades down
south in the Los Angeles Tenants Union who
552
::I brought up. previously already, you know,
they've really been impactful on our development.
553
::Some of their members like Don't, were up here
for our founding convention as well and helped
554
::us get set up. So really this cross border
solidarity was built in from the beginning
555
::and they brought up these sort of conceptions
of the tenant class needing to go beyond just
556
::people who are in that sort of traditional
understanding of our rent relationship. to
557
::those who are, let's say, being evicted from
their tents on provincial parkland. In these
558
::situations, there's no distinction between a
private landlord and the state who happens
559
::to be the landlord and is governing people's
individual lives on a day-to-day basis. The
560
::union has been involved in struggles to stop,
know, decantments and things like this. part
561
::of a number of different coalitions. with
other community groups as well. There's one
562
::coalition called Stop the Sweeps that the union
was a founding coalition partner in. That
563
::coalition has sort of gone on to become its
own organization in some ways, but a lot of
564
::the core members came from the VTU and still
identify as members of the union as well.
565
::but have more autonomy than just being subject
to its coalition partners desires, which we
566
::actually really prefer. And I think during
a number of different fights, union members
567
::are the ones on the ground often trying to
support people in their fight against the
568
::cops, the enforcement arm of these provincial
landlords essentially. taking the opportunities
569
::also to try and educate the membership about
how our fights are tied together. There actually
570
::is no distinction. I mean, there's the clear
material distinction of whether or not you
571
::are housed or not, but the class is the same.
Every tenant that we organize in a building
572
::is one rent check away from being on the street,
but the enemy remains the same. It's still,
573
::in the larger sense, the system of private
property in the capitalist mode of production.
574
::I think in the union, part of the way that
we've grown to understand also how we expand
575
::these definitions of who we're organizing the
working class or some other group is by
576
::trying to frame the work we do around the type
of labor that we're organizing. In the case
577
::of labor unions, they're often organizing productive
labor. In the case of tenant unions, our task
578
::is to organize reproductive labor. the people
who are keeping the home and the community
579
::functioning. And this includes both housed
and unhoused members of the community who do
580
::work every single day to make sure that the
streets are clean, to make sure that people
581
::are fed and the kids are taken care of. People
who are typically excluded for systemic reasons
582
::from the labor movement, for example. Migrant
workers who maybe don't have status or women
583
::who are raising the children in the home whose
labor is invaluable whatsoever. or unhoused
584
::people, again, who are doing street cleaning
programs, like the work that happens at Van
585
::Do, the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users,
who are part of coalition work that we do also
586
::towards the ends of, yeah, housing everyone
and also drug user liberation. I would say
587
::that the biggest fights that we've been involved
in or that members have been involved in,
588
::but I would like to give the total credit
to Stop the Sweeps, the group that we're a
589
::part of. is most recently the decantment fight
for the Hastings tent city, which happened
590
::a couple of years ago. But I think people learned
a lot through that experience, which ultimately,
591
::unfortunately, resulted in a loss where the
city came down with like an unbelievable amount
592
::of police force in order to sweep people off
the street. But it was an extremely pivotal
593
::and radicalizing moment for a lot of people
in the city who sort of saw a state power laid
594
::bare, the power of private property really laid
bare. And I think both of our organizations,
595
::Stop the Sweeps and the VTU have only grown
since those moments and want to keep fighting
596
::for liberation for all of us. Because if it's
not all of us, it's none of us. A lot of our
597
::episodes have these great examples of authorities
really clenching their fists and cracking
598
::down and it only... seems to mobilize folks.
mean, there blows. It's not to minimize those
599
::losses. like, those are real material losses
for people too. But it does just galvanize
600
::people a lot more than I think they anticipate.
And they end up actually being the root causes
601
::for a lot of folks' work out. Because Toronto
experienced a very similar moment. And I feel
602
::like that was like two or three years ago. a
particularly violent encampment eviction that,
603
::you know, I'm not sure anybody has tried to
defend one in that same way since because
604
::it was so traumatizing and unsuccessful in that
way. But surely I've seen a spike and we've
605
::had, we have Voices for the Unhoused here
in Toronto, which is a type of union for unhoused
606
::people or people within the shelter system.
Yeah, hearing how they reshaped or grew from
607
::what was meant to be a devastating blow, right?
It was designed to, because sometimes they're
608
::not even about clearing the park, right? It's
about sending a message to the entire community
609
::as well. Those sweeps. Totally. Yeah. I mean,
we've seen, we've seen now, uh, stop the sweeps,
610
::organizations crop up across all of BC. Previously
it was just in Vancouver and since then, members
611
::from South Pacific have been going to Kelowna,
Nanaimo, to all these different places to work
612
::with people who are establishing mutual aid
networks, support networks, organizing networks
613
::in order to defend these tense cities. So it
has led to growth. And like you said, these
614
::moments of increased repression are dialectical.
They also produce increased resistance. And
615
::I think that's what makes this time that we're
all in so exciting. It's scary. You know,
616
::we're facing real possible fascist forces.
And at the same time, a lot of people are sort
617
::of waking up to the reality and getting involved
in the struggle. And the more of us that are
618
::closer together, the more tenants and house
people see their struggles as one, the better
619
::chance we have at beating the next tent city
eviction, the better chance we have at winning
620
::the next rent strike or holding down the next
squad. These are the ways is when we work
621
::together and there's more of us in this space.
Asura, do you have any kind of parting words
622
::you want to leave the audience with? Yes, just
very similarly. I'm really excited to hear
623
::that, you even you saying that you kind of
like are feeling somewhat of a moment for
624
::tenant organizing. It's kind of nice to hear
that also this, I think I'm relatively new,
625
::so I feel kind of like not sure about the larger
context, but I basically agree. think what
626
::is the main thing for me is like it is giving
me personally a lot of hope. And I think that
627
::is. It's a very beautiful, important thing
to have something to hold onto that also provides
628
::hope in a very real way. I'm not going to try
to sit here and just be kind of like, we're
629
::just talking about, you know, a vision, an idea.
No, this is like a real kind of like, this
630
::work is meant to be kind of like leading us
to a different place to change. That's why
631
::I really am excited about also some of these
conversations with you. conversations with
632
::our comrades. I think this was set up initially
through a conversation with, I think, the
633
::folks in Ottawa that you had. And seeing these
kind of collaborations that, you know, it's
634
::like in the neighborhood, in the city, we are
talking across province, we're talking across
635
::Canada, we're crossing borders. And it's beautiful.
It absolutely is beautiful. I talk a lot to
636
::organizers, activists, we talk about a lot of
issues, but I, the The feeling I get from leaving
637
::tenant union discussions and hearing about
the growth and victories and even hearing about
638
::the barriers, right? Cause that's learning being
done. I get like, I feel like a buzz because
639
::like, know, the whole purpose of what I do is
right, is to give people hope in that there's
640
::other actions out there other than the ballot
box, right? That your fate is not in the hand
641
::of politicians, it's in your hands, right? And
I think tenant organizing is one of those spaces
642
::and that they're growing in such a time that
they won't mimic colonial institutions. We
643
::know better than that now, right? Where labor
unions do, our political parties do for the
644
::most part, right? But these are new and they're
growing in such ways that really do give us
645
::examples of what it might look like after we're
done all of this, right? And it gives us an
646
::idea of. you know, even if we're a voting bloc,
you know, if you can just try to imagine, let's
647
::say you're not at revolution yet, all right?
But could you imagine 80 % of people in a neighborhood,
648
::the power, like let's say it does rest on the
ballot box for you, like just imagine harnessing
649
::that level of power, right? And yes, it's not
just a dream. You are like, it's a dream to
650
::be in every building. Like you guys are really
living that work, right? Well, you'll get there.
651
::And I think very shortly, because as things
get worse, people are going to start to look,
652
::for solutions that mean something and the right
is not offering that. And that kind of like
653
::angry outlet and is not going to give them
victories or make them feel good in the same
654
::way that connecting with their community members,
you block by block, door by door, whatnot,
655
::the way that that feels, right? You naturally
come together like that, then you naturally
656
::feed into these kinds of ideas. It just kind
of, it happens, right? Especially if you...
657
::hold on to one another and support one another
and it's not like this desperate grasping at
658
::one another. It's stronger than that. So like
I totally appreciate the work that you folks
659
::are doing. That's hard work and spending time
in the studio explaining it to us all. I really
660
::appreciate it because my guess is most people
listening right now are tenants and not every
661
::one of them is in a tenant union yet, right?
But they'll get there. They'll get there.
662
::So thank you very much, Ben and Asura. And
shout out to your entire tenant union. I would
663
::love to hear more about the migrant students
union too. So maybe you folks can like pass
664
::it. This is how I get my interviews, right?
Like you guys start bragging about all these
665
::great people you work with. And then it's like,
I got to talk to them too. If they've got lessons,
666
::we need to know what they are. Right. So, you
know, for folks listening. you will find ways
667
::to contact these folks and learn more about
them in the show notes, including their, I
668
::mean, we didn't give it much justice. Their
basis of unity is really a good read. Honestly,
669
::it sounds like a boring document, like when
you're like, Oh, we'll learn about their structure
670
::and stuff like that. But I was, I was getting
a little bit giddy ready. You know, maybe that
671
::makes me a commie nerd. I don't know, but it
was fun and it was fun discussing it all with
672
::you. Thank you very much folks. Thank you, Jessa.
Thank you so much for having us. That is a
673
::wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption.
Thank you for joining us. Please share our
674
::content, and if you have the means, consider
becoming a patron. Not only does our support
675
::come from the progressive community, so does
our content. So reach out to us and let us
676
::know what or who we should be amplifying. So
until next time, keep disrupting.
